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Started by Shep at 08-17-2009 10:47 AM. Topic has 119 replies.

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   08-17-2009, 10:47 AM
Shep is online. Last active: 7/25/2010 2:40:38 AM Shep



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FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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http://globalcxglvtwins.hostingdelivered.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=335&p=1751#p1751





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   08-17-2009, 10:59 AM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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That coil you used...looks an awful lot like the ones on my Johnson Outboard Motor! 

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   08-17-2009, 11:10 AM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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Thanks, Shep. I've just begun the same search, as I'm convinced my 5k stumble is the result of a failing coil. Do you have any more specs on this universal unit? It would help me to source one here.

R


'78 CX500 - Black Maggot --> Green Grub / Yellow Grub / Red Grub ???
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   08-17-2009, 11:14 AM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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What's the output on that one vs OEM?

1979 CX500
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   08-17-2009, 11:23 AM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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I'm more concerned about the input.  If it's expecting a lower voltage than the CDI puts out, it will multiply the voltage way too much.  That's why the TI coils aren't compatible.

R


'78 CX500 - Black Maggot --> Green Grub / Yellow Grub / Red Grub ???
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   08-17-2009, 11:25 AM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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 Randall-in-Mpls wrote:
I'm more concerned about the input.  If it's expecting a lower voltage than the CDI puts out, it will multiply the voltage way too much.  That's why the TI coils aren't compatible.

R



It's NOT a TI coil

I do a lot of research before I try things and test them.So far there's no problem.Top link has been updated.

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   08-17-2009, 11:59 AM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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 CXSarnia wrote:
That coil you used...looks an awful lot like the ones on my Johnson Outboard Motor! 


That doesn't surprise me.There are some Outboard motor parts that are the same as on out bikes like the 17mm Inspection cover at the front and on the rear drive box.These coils are also used on ATVs and Mini motos.

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   08-17-2009, 12:07 PM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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Thanks, Shep.  I was looking at this one, but I'm not sure if the spec is right.

Maybe I'll have to try the one you linked on the other forum.  The description states 20" long.  If that includes both leads, will it reach the head?  I'll see if I can get more specific info.

R


'78 CX500 - Black Maggot --> Green Grub / Yellow Grub / Red Grub ???
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   08-17-2009, 12:19 PM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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 Randall-in-Mpls wrote:
Thanks, Shep.  I was looking at this one, but I'm not sure if the spec is right.

Maybe I'll have to try the one you linked on the other forum.  The description states 20" long.  If that includes both leads, will it reach the head?  I'll see if I can get more specific info.

R



The 2nd one is the best one.You are only buying one remember.you need two if you are replacing both.The HTs on ours are 27.5 cm so the length would have to be extended.People have spliced HTs and insulated using Heat shrink sleeving but it says 20" which should be more than enough even subtracting the length of the Coil if that's what they mean.

 You can soon solder the LT old coloured wire off your present coil/s onto the new one.


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   08-17-2009, 12:37 PM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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27.5mm is just short of 11", so that leaves about 9" for the coil and low tension lead.  It also appears to have the correct bullet connector.  Unless the LT lead is too short, no soldering would be necessary.



I've sent a message to the seller.  I'll post what I learn.

R



'78 CX500 - Black Maggot --> Green Grub / Yellow Grub / Red Grub ???
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   08-17-2009, 1:03 PM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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It's 27.5 cm not mm.20" = 50cm(500mm) approx.

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   08-17-2009, 1:51 PM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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Sorry, I meant centimeters.  27.5cm is about 10.8".  That means that for the universal replacement coil to have a sufficiently long HT lead, the coil and LT lead need to be 9" or less.

R


'78 CX500 - Black Maggot --> Green Grub / Yellow Grub / Red Grub ???
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   08-17-2009, 1:58 PM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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 Randall-in-Mpls wrote:
Sorry, I meant centimeters.  27.5cm is about 10.8".  That means that for the universal replacement coil to have a sufficiently long HT lead, the coil and LT lead need to be 9" or less.

R



You are confusing me.If the replacement one is 20" then it's more than long enough.As per my page I just chopped off a few inches at the plug end and screwed the plug cap back in.Then attached the old LT wire to it with it's bullet connector at the other end.The HT on my Stock coil is 12".



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   08-17-2009, 2:18 PM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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Now you're confusing me.  You just said "The HTs on ours are 27.5 cm so the length would have to be extended."  Were referring to the Emgo replacement I linked above?

Regardless, I found another that I think will fit the bill.  Only $6.99 and free shipping.



I'd need to make a LT lead with spade and bullet connectors, but that's easy.  I could even pull them from some dead coils I've got.

I want to think and dig just a bit more before I jump in, but I'll probably move on it in the next couple days.

R


'78 CX500 - Black Maggot --> Green Grub / Yellow Grub / Red Grub ???
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   08-17-2009, 2:50 PM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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Yes we were at cross purposes.

The 2nd link I posted would work and the new one you have just found will work and even cheaper and do as you say which is what I did.I refer the honourable gentleman to my 1st post/link and part thereof,

http://globalcxglvtwins.hostingdelivered.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=335

For that price it's a no brainer



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   08-17-2009, 8:14 PM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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Randall if you can try to buy one that can easily be identified by bike or motor or whatever it came from so I can do the same down the road..

1979 CX500 Supertanker
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   08-18-2009, 3:27 AM
Shep is online. Last active: 7/25/2010 2:40:38 AM Shep



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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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 Blindstitch wrote:
Randall if you can try to buy one that can easily be identified by bike or motor or whatever it came from so I can do the same down the road..


All you need Don is a coil that was used on a,"Points Ignition" car/engine that has a long enough HT.CDI coils have only one LT thin wire and one HT and then ground to the frame to make the circuit.For many years points ignition was the norm so these coils would have been the most common. but now it's Tansistor ignition coils that are the most abundant.



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   08-18-2009, 8:28 AM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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just bought 2 of Tecoparts coils for 13€ including shipping and insurance.
i will tell you how they go
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   08-18-2009, 8:33 AM
Shep is online. Last active: 7/25/2010 2:40:38 AM Shep



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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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 Ferro wrote:
just bought 2 of Tecoparts coils for 13€ including shipping and insurance. i will tell you how they go


Cool.so long as they are our type as above I hope they work




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   08-20-2009, 9:01 PM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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Bump. Still thinking about doing this just haven't got there.

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   08-21-2009, 12:44 AM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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Mine is still on the bike and over 200 miles covered now and not a one misfire etc

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   08-21-2009, 8:46 AM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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Thanks for doing the leg work on this Shep. 

Now for a question, as I have been awake for a very long time, and am not quite wrapping my head around it.  On the coil you used, did you use the spark plug cap that came with the coil?  Or did you remove it, and replace it with the stock CX one, and if so how?

Thanks, this is my next step for my bike.


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   08-21-2009, 8:54 AM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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 stormtrooper784 wrote:

Thanks for doing the leg work on this Shep. 

Now for a question, as I have been awake for a very long time, and am not quite wrapping my head around it.  On the coil you used, did you use the spark plug cap that came with the coil?  Or did you remove it, and replace it with the stock CX one, and if so how?

Thanks, this is my next step for my bike.



I had already ordered and bought a couple of new Spark Plug caps from Wemoto,
http://www.wemoto.com/index.dyn?oid=1911758

None resistor types as I hate those resistor ones(My CX standard uses the none resistors but I had a couple on the resistor types in my spares box and they were crap and defunct) as I was down to my last spare one and they were all old(Probably over 25 years old).

The universal coils I got had no plug caps on them but they only screw into the HTs anyway so it was just the same as if I had bought original coils.Even if you get a universal coil that has plug caps on just take them off and screw the CX/GL plug caps in as you normally would do.




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   08-21-2009, 9:05 AM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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Would dirty plug caps and or "going" coils possibly cause a CDI to go bad? Not sure if the resistance would bother it. What is the good range of resistance on a coil?

78' Standard Maggot

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   08-21-2009, 9:16 AM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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 NateDawg wrote:
Would dirty plug caps and or "going" coils possibly cause a CDI to go bad? Not sure if the resistance would bother it. What is the good range of resistance on a coil?


Funny you should ask.Whilst diagnosing my Bog down at 60 mph and finally finding the duff coil and weak plug cap that showed a good spark at all other revs up to around 5,5000 rpm I swapped a spare CDI unit I had but then remembered that it was not a good one.
     However since putting the new coils and caps on that CDI now works perfectly well.

My conclusion.

Don't treat the CDI unit in isolation.There may well have been resonable condition CDI units that have been discarded because faulty coils and caps that appear to be good but are not and have dragged it down.

   At present I'm running the new one and a stock one.
The old one LT to plug cap reads around 7.6k
The new one on same test reads around 5.6K on a 20k Digital ohm setting.

Plug caps have Zero resistance(None resistor type).





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   08-21-2009, 12:19 PM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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When the CDI unit sends a pulse to the coil.... how much juice are we talking? The coil is just "amping" it up. Maybe a coil with more resistance than it should have causes a restriction of that pulse causing the CDI to heat up? I believe heat is the number one reason circuit boards go bad. So... along with yearly maintenance, maybe we should be checking the resistance of our coils/ caps? If there is just a little more resistance in a coil than it should have, I would think there may be a possibility that the coil may fire just a hair (miliseconds) slower than the cdi is telling it to, thus changing the timing ever so slightly. Could this be a problem for the cdi? But the cdi gets its information from the thingy on the flywheel, but only reading that? I hope I got somebody's upstairs wheels turning.


EDIT: I recently (and BlindStitch) had a cdi go bad. Bike didnt run, changed the cdi and it runs perfectly. What caused the failure is up for debate. Taking the bike from non running to running smoothly by changing the cdi is not. Come on techies, lemmie hear some noise!!

78' Standard Maggot

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   08-21-2009, 4:43 PM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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 NateDawg wrote:
When the CDI unit sends a pulse to the coil.... how much juice are we talking? The coil is just "amping" it up. Maybe a coil with more resistance than it should have causes a restriction of that pulse causing the CDI to heat up? I believe heat is the number one reason circuit boards go bad. So... along with yearly maintenance, maybe we should be checking the resistance of our coils/ caps? If there is just a little more resistance in a coil than it should have, I would think there may be a possibility that the coil may fire just a hair (miliseconds) slower than the cdi is telling it to, thus changing the timing ever so slightly. Could this be a problem for the cdi? But the cdi gets its information from the thingy on the flywheel, but only reading that? I hope I got somebody's upstairs wheels turning.


EDIT: I recently (and BlindStitch) had a cdi go bad. Bike didnt run, changed the cdi and it runs perfectly. What caused the failure is up for debate. Taking the bike from non running to running smoothly by changing the cdi is not. Come on techies, lemmie hear some noise!!


Our coils don't"Amp" in effect they,"Volt"

Easy reading,

http://news.carjunky.com/how_stuff_works/how_ignition_coil_or_spark_coil_works_ic2315.shtml


http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090429112750AAUhNOz

Yes to your question IMHO.If the resistance of the coils has increased beyond usable amount for the specification of the CDI unit then the Unit will not be able to perform correctly.This of course would make the observer think the CDI unit was at fault if they did not test the coils.The resistances I have posted are only my measurement as I don't have the facilities or device to do the Worksop Manual tests but it has proved reliable enough to track down and fix the fault I had.

HTH :)




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   08-22-2009, 3:01 AM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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Shep wrote the following post at 08-21-2009 10:43 PM:

 NateDawg wrote:
When the CDI unit sends a pulse to the coil.... how much juice are we talking? The coil is just "amping" it up. Maybe a coil with more resistance than it should have causes a restriction of that pulse causing the CDI to heat up? I believe heat is the number one reason circuit boards go bad. So... along with yearly maintenance, maybe we should be checking the resistance of our coils/ caps? If there is just a little more resistance in a coil than it should have, I would think there may be a possibility that the coil may fire just a hair (miliseconds) slower than the cdi is telling it to, thus changing the timing ever so slightly. Could this be a problem for the cdi? But the cdi gets its information from the thingy on the flywheel, but only reading that? I hope I got somebody's upstairs wheels turning.


EDIT: I recently (and BlindStitch) had a cdi go bad. Bike didnt run, changed the cdi and it runs perfectly. What caused the failure is up for debate. Taking the bike from non running to running smoothly by changing the cdi is not. Come on techies, lemmie hear some noise!!



Our coils don't"Amp" in effect they,"Volt"

Easy reading,

from memory,a coil produce about 25,000 volts,but hardley any amps[amps are the killers].

my elecric fencer produced about the same,cattle didnt like them,they had 4 feet,a real good earth.


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   08-22-2009, 7:35 AM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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Just for the record, I put amp in quotation marks because I was using it as kind of a pun. It was ment to be funny because to amp something up doesnt have to be related to current flow. My question was nothing about amps or how many volts come out of a coil. It was more about the relationship between the cdi and the coil, and how a bad coil could possibly cause a cdi to go bad.


Edit: Can a coil be bad and yet still allow the bike to run well?

78' Standard Maggot

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   08-22-2009, 9:10 AM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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Yes.
But it may have areas where it doesn't run as well.

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   08-22-2009, 11:49 AM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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 Blindstitch wrote:
Yes.
But it may have areas where it doesn't run as well.


Exactomoundo

For all intents and purposes up to 60 miles an hour you would have thought there nothing wrong with my bike.Instant start on both cylinders from cold.Full power up to 60 but then started dragging and bogging(Which my CXs have never done).
    New Coil well over 300 miles now.Still as good as the other side.Had a quick burst to 60+35<grin> Mph today,not even a blip on the radar(O

 Schmoooth as silk

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   08-22-2009, 12:40 PM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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I havent pushed it past 85 mph but there was more to give. All I did was replace the cdi. Still wondering what made the other go bad.

78' Standard Maggot

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   08-24-2009, 11:23 AM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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I just ordered a pair of Tecoparts coils.  I'm still a little concerned about the length of the HT leads, but I guess we'll know in about a week.

R


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   08-27-2009, 7:05 AM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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Any updates on the coils.

1979 CX500 C - a work in progress
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   08-27-2009, 7:12 AM
Shep is online. Last active: 7/25/2010 2:40:38 AM Shep



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UK.2x1980CX500A
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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 Silent-Knight wrote:
Any updates on the coils.


My one hasn't given me a moments concern.If I were in the US I'd buy a pair of the same as the above,

CDI coils

But I'm sure Randalls will be back to use soon :)

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   08-27-2009, 8:42 AM
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Minneapolis, MN
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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The pair I ordered are about a week away.  I'll be sure to post results once I get them installed and tested.

R


'78 CX500 - Black Maggot --> Green Grub / Yellow Grub / Red Grub ???
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   08-31-2009, 8:53 AM
Ferro is not online. Last active: 7/22/2010 4:52:17 AM Ferro



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Firenze - Italy
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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i'll also post as they arrive
June 1978 CX 500 Red - One of the first 3 in Italy
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   09-04-2009, 9:27 AM
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Idaho
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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Thanks Shep, I ordered a set Tues, and can't wait to find out if it'll cure my troubles.  I was a bit curious to know if the orange "Race" coils they had for $14.99 would make any difference over the black ones we bought.  Any thoughts? 
81' CX500D
80' CX500C parts all over the place!!!!
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   09-04-2009, 9:56 AM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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My guess is the orange cover is the only difference :)

Like racing stripes...those add at least 25 hp.

1980 CX500C - Cafe style planned
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   09-04-2009, 10:27 AM
Shep is online. Last active: 7/25/2010 2:40:38 AM Shep



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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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As other poster says it's most likely a cosmetic thing.There's not a lot to the coils and if they are within the usable range they will all do the same job.Better to upgrade to Iridium plugs even if only for the fact they last a helluva long time without the need for re-gapping(One set of mine are now close to 15k and still going great).



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   09-05-2009, 5:55 AM
Ferro is not online. Last active: 7/22/2010 4:52:17 AM Ferro



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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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my tecoparts coils arrived today.
bike starts normally, although i have still to test them in a long ride.
i had to cut them because the wire is way too long, and mount on a metal frame like Shep did.

here are some pictures:



i've noticed a little improvement at low rpm as my old coils were a little buggy after 30 years, those ones are quite nice indeed.
June 1978 CX 500 Red - One of the first 3 in Italy
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   09-05-2009, 9:24 AM
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Joined on 08-13-2009
Wasilla, Alaska
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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I just bought a pair of those Tecoparts coils about 5 hours ago, I'm not sure I needed them but at that price its worth having them just to experiment with.

I am also now interested in knowing the performance of these.

1980 CX 500 Deluxe with Vetter Vindicator
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LED lamp conversion
Bridgestone Spitfires
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New stuff being added every day.
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   09-05-2009, 9:31 AM
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Eau Claire, WI 54703
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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Nice, neat job there, Ferro. I'm starting to think along the lines of Silverado. Pick up a set of coils, just in case I should need them down the road. Currently own a TI, not a CDI bike, though.
1982 Honda GL500 Silverwing
1982 Yamaha 550 Vision
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   09-05-2009, 9:32 AM
Ferro is not online. Last active: 7/22/2010 4:52:17 AM Ferro



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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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no good for TI bikes, unfortunately :(
June 1978 CX 500 Red - One of the first 3 in Italy
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   09-05-2009, 10:26 AM
Shep is online. Last active: 7/25/2010 2:40:38 AM Shep



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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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 Ferro wrote:
my tecoparts coils arrived today.
bike starts normally, although i have still to test them in a long ride.
i had to cut them because the wire is way too long, and mount on a metal frame like Shep did.

here are some pictures:



i've noticed a little improvement at low rpm as my old coils were a little buggy after 30 years, those ones are quite nice indeed.


Nice job.I reckon the coil that went on me was as old as the bike so that would have been 30 years old next year.They just don't make stuff to last these days do they<BFG>

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   09-05-2009, 10:28 AM
makindu is not online. Last active: 7/19/2010 10:46:23 PM makindu



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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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(Note to Ferro)...In case I buy a '78-'81 CDI bike in the future and restore it...
1982 Honda GL500 Silverwing
1982 Yamaha 550 Vision
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   09-07-2009, 9:43 PM
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Greenfield Wisconsin
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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Ok so I took the plunge and ebayed a set. $14 isn't going to hurt me so in 15 days I'll have coils to test.
But here's the question.

Ok so I was talking to David in Wisconsin a while back and he mentioned that the gl500 didn't  have the middle engine bracket as it wasn't needed. I think the coils on the gl sit underneath the frame sideways so here's the real question.

Why worry about adapting the new coils to those existing brackets when the length of extra piece needed could just be extended another inch or so and use the other bolt hole. Then when the carbs need to come off or something it will be less of a hassle. And the coils won't have to come off with the brackets.

Just a thought. 

1979 CX500 Supertanker
ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier.

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   09-08-2009, 4:43 AM
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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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 Blindstitch wrote:
Ok so I took the plunge and ebayed a set. $14 isn't going to hurt me so in 15 days I'll have coils to test.
But here's the question.

Ok so I was talking to David in Wisconsin a while back and he mentioned that the gl500 didn't  have the middle engine bracket as it wasn't needed. I think the coils on the gl sit underneath the frame sideways so here's the real question.

Why worry about adapting the new coils to those existing brackets when the length of extra piece needed could just be extended another inch or so and use the other bolt hole. Then when the carbs need to come off or something it will be less of a hassle. And the coils won't have to come off with the brackets.

Just a thought. 


I thought the GLs were TAI ignition?


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   09-08-2009, 5:07 AM
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Chantilly, VA
Posts 1,353
Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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Is everyone running stand spark plug gaps with the new coils? I was hoping to hear if the new coil had enough juice to fire across a larger gap, say from 0.28 to 0.35. You would have the potential to get a bit moe power and run cleaner...

Jerry
90 PC 800 (commuting steed)
82 GL500I (50+mpg, great bike)

66 BMW R 50/2 (No brakes/HP)
80 CX500C (Loved this bike)
74 CB360 (Fun; but too small)
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76 CB550 (step up from 200cc)
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   09-08-2009, 7:21 AM
Ferro is not online. Last active: 7/22/2010 4:52:17 AM Ferro



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Re: FYI Cx500 Universal CDI coils(Cheap)
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i have iridium plugs and i don't know if it's a good thing to do to enlarge the gap...
June 1978 CX 500 Red - One of the first 3 in Italy
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