Honda CX500 & GL500 Forum

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02-08-2010, 3:15 PM Moose Joined on 05-13-2009 Southampton, England Posts 37 Jump Starting a Turbo Hi, I have been told by an 'Ex turbo' rider that there was a problem or at least a "be wary of..." with regard to jump starting a CX T from another vehicle, he couldn't tell me why or what happens/or doesn't, simply DON'T. Can anyone throw any light on the matter please, as I would like to know what to do/not to do should I ever need to? Thanks CX650Tcd currently not running CX650Tcd (in boxes) CX500A, First bike I had bigger than 200cc(Now sold) BMW R1100GS Various beaters/clunkers I think 18 in all now    Report

02-08-2010, 6:33 PM George in Indiana Joined on 03-03-2006 Posts 954 Re: Jump Starting a Turbo Cars have a different type of charging system compared to motorcycles. You risk damaging the charging system of the bike and car if the car is running during the jump start. Jump without the car running and you should be fine. CX500 TURBO CX650 TURBO '04 GSX1300R Hayabusa    Report

02-08-2010, 9:20 PM Don in Oz Joined on 03-10-2006 Melbourne, Australia Posts 546 Re: Jump Starting a Turbo The main problem with jump-starting any CX or GL (and most other bikes with similar rectifier/regulator units) is that you must NEVER apply more than 14.5 volts to the bike's electrical system, as the sensing input to the rectifier/regulator can only stand 14.5 volts maximum, and anything higher will "blow up" that input - it is NOT over-current protected. George's point of NOT having the donour vehicle's motor running during jump-starting is THE safest way to make sure you stay in the safe zone with CXes and GLs of this vintage. Don. GL500I, CX500TC (2), CX500EC (2), 1982 CX500C. GL1000, 1976 CB550F, CT110 (2), XL125S (2), 1973 CB175K6. Kwaka Z250C1 (2). Suzuki GS450SX, DR250SJ, GS125ESD.    Report

02-08-2010, 10:28 PM Diesel08 Joined on 10-17-2009 Columbus, OH Posts 244 Re: Jump Starting a Turbo How about say a running small lawn mower? I have done this and the light turns on it just clicks and doesn't turn over. But then again I haven't really gave it time to charge after jumping it. Not to hijack the thread or anything 1980 CX500 Custom    Report

02-09-2010, 3:05 AM CXSarnia Joined on 01-11-2008 Sarnia, Ontario, Canada Posts 2,626 Re: Jump Starting a Turbo If you are jumping to start it, it's because you have let the battery drain down. By design, a low battery will work against the fresh battery, and your voltage will be lower than the fresh battery. Most vehicles are the same as our bikes. ie: 12 volt battery, and a voltage regulator that will keep it below 14 volts. I agree it would be safe enough with the doner (car) not running, but I don't see a problem between today's technology and 30 years ago. I would say that the issue was brought about because of cars of the day. (which would now be 35 or 40 year old cars) which would not have the safety built into their electrical systems. Remember - our bikes were over engineered for late 1970/early 1980. As for the Lawnmower... it would depend on the current it could supply. ie, it would have to be a 12volt system, and if it didn't have it's own battery, or only a very small one, it wouldn't have the "Umpfff" to turn over a CX/GL (imho). It might, if given enough time, charge up the CX's battery to a point where it will start, but I doubt you could 'jump start' the bike from a lawnmower. 2009 DN-01 Spakin' New! 1982 CX500 Turbo & Parts bike 1981 SL185 Yamaha Exciter 198? V45 Magna 1979 CX500 Deluxe 1982 CB750K Daily rider September 1999 1982 CX500 Custom - project Originally bought April 1982 safetied and on the road 09/2008    Report

02-09-2010, 3:55 AM Karsten Joined on 03-19-2009 Dublin, Ireland Posts 129 Re: Jump Starting a Turbo I would rather not jump/lead-start a CXT. Not because of regulator problems, the regulator should be protected by diodes anyway, but becaquse of the nasty transients, that occur when you connect/disconnect the jump leads (and when the leads wobble, the contacs are corroded etc). Those can be nasty to the electronics, in particular to older CMOS chips and capacitors. There's not much going on electronically in a standard carburetted motorbike, but the CXT with it's 80's electronics is a completely different beast. When electronics from this period die, it's mostly due to capacitor blow-ups or PCB warping. Both usually mean the end of the device. I don't think that CXT ignition control units and engine control units are freely available and cheap as chips, so I would rather speed-charge the battery (or connect it to a trickle charger all the time) than pushing my luck.... GL500i - 1981 CX500TC - 1983    Report

02-09-2010, 5:33 AM George in Indiana Joined on 03-03-2006 Posts 954 Re: Jump Starting a Turbo It doesn't matter if it's a new car or a 30 year old car. The charging systems are different and you stand a good chance of destroying one (most likely the motorcycle's). This article does a good job at explaining it. http://www.shadowriders.org/faq/jumpstarting.aspx CX500 TURBO CX650 TURBO '04 GSX1300R Hayabusa    Report

02-09-2010, 5:41 AM spanish bandit Joined on 02-12-2009 southern spain Posts 5,010 Re: Jump Starting a Turbo georges link  http://www.shadowriders.org/faq/jumpstarting.aspx when i feel the need,i do it,llego,ve 60,s ----------------------------- 2008.1982 honda gli silverwing [uk model ] 2010.1981 honda gli silverwing [uk model ]    Report

02-09-2010, 2:44 PM Don in Oz Joined on 03-10-2006 Melbourne, Australia Posts 546 Re: Jump Starting a Turbo If you speed-charge a battery, it usually ends up way above the 14.5 volts I mentioned earlier - if you're not watching it with a voltmeter. The safest way to charge motorcycle batteries is with a "battery doctor" or similar charger - one that puts in bulk current until the battery reaches about 15 volts, then the charger "backs-off" to its trickle-charge setting where it "idles" at about 14 volts. Unless you turn the ignition switch on when the charger is just about to change-over to trickle rate, you're in safe territory - and even then, the first rush of current to light the headlight plus turn-over the fuel pump, will instantaneously reduce the battery's voltage, safeguarding the regulator's sensing input circuitry. Don. GL500I, CX500TC (2), CX500EC (2), 1982 CX500C. GL1000, 1976 CB550F, CT110 (2), XL125S (2), 1973 CB175K6. Kwaka Z250C1 (2). Suzuki GS450SX, DR250SJ, GS125ESD.    Report

02-10-2010, 1:44 AM Karsten Joined on 03-19-2009 Dublin, Ireland Posts 129 Re: Jump Starting a Turbo Since you're NEVER supposed to charge a lead/acid battery whilst it is installed in the vehicle, the excess voltage from a speed charge will have gone off by the time you're finished installing it properly. Even doing a standard charge can - depending on the battery state - lead to acid being spilled out of the battery due to cooking. Yes, and it can and will cook in the summer if you're not using enough of your electrical energy. Most motorbikes - including the CX - do NOT have a variable commutation for the generator, that means other than in a car, the bike generator will always give you the maximum rated power. Due to the relationship between Voltage and Wattage lower used wattage means increased voltage and if your regulator (like in many/most CX's) is set too high by factory standards (and you can't tweak them), it means, that you WILL end up cooking your battery, which will get increasingly worse with decreasing fluid levels in the battery. So, do not try to "save" electricity on your bike. As long as you have enough milliAmps flowing into your battery to make up for the start, it's fine. You won't save any fuel (like you would in a car), too. It might sound confusing, but using more electricity will help to reduce the risk of coil failure due to transient sparks, will run your generator coils at a cooler temp and will make them last longer in general. Of course, there is an offside, that your regulator might run hotter (although not much), but what is easier to replace? An alternator or the regulator? Oh yes and do not forget to get away with the stupid three yellow connectors. Solder'em if you can as they tend to get hot once they get a bit correded. I've seen some that were close to set the bike on fire.... GL500i - 1981 CX500TC - 1983    Report

02-10-2010, 10:19 AM RichNCT Joined on 03-02-2006 Connecticut, USA Posts 3,463 Re: Jump Starting a Turbo Interesting and informative info from George's link and Karsten.  From the "real world" (where we all live when we are not on the forun ) I'll say this, not in disagreement, but as an additional viewpoint.  First, I routinely charge lead acid batteries in the vehicle, have for 50 years, never had a problem that I was aware of.  Granted, most of this has been on older vehicles with less than the current amount of electronics onboard.  Second, if the risk of jumping our bikes from a running car is to the rectifier/regulator, where's the evidence in failed RRs?  They apparently seldom ever fail.  If you keep a spare on the shelf (as I do), your heirs will probably throw it away when settling your estate. Refueling on The James Bay Road, 2009 Born to be relatively wild (for a grampa x 3) GL650I, CX650E, CX650T    Report

02-10-2010, 10:47 AM spanish bandit Joined on 02-12-2009 southern spain Posts 5,010 Re: Jump Starting a Turbo  RichNCT wrote: Interesting and informative info from George's link and Karsten.  From the "real world" (where we all live when we are not on the forun ) I'll say this, not in disagreement, but as an additional viewpoint.  First, I routinely charge lead acid batteries in the vehicle, have for 50 years, never had a problem that I was aware of.  Granted, most of this has been on older vehicles with less than the current amount of electronics onboard.  Second, if the risk of jumping our bikes from a running car is to the rectifier/regulator, where's the evidence in failed RRs?  They apparently seldom ever fail.  If you keep a spare on the shelf (as I do), your heirs will probably throw it away when settling your estate. rich,there was a post 6 months or so ago where a member,stated that it makes no difference at all wether a car is running or not.i cant remember who,but it was a well respected member with lots of knowledge on the subject.having said that there were people in disagreement. i always advise not running,ere on the side of caution when i feel the need,i do it,llego,ve 60,s ----------------------------- 2008.1982 honda gli silverwing [uk model ] 2010.1981 honda gli silverwing [uk model ]    Report

02-10-2010, 12:24 PM Don in Oz Joined on 03-10-2006 Melbourne, Australia Posts 546 Re: Jump Starting a Turbo Rich, You obviously have not owned a Honda NX650 (Dominator, here in Oz). They have their sensing input lead permanantly connected to the battery positive - great idea for sensing EXACTLY what the battery is doing - but definitely not good for charging the battery in the bike without disconnecting it from the bike's system. There are quite a few of these regulators that are now SCRAP in Oz. Don. GL500I, CX500TC (2), CX500EC (2), 1982 CX500C. GL1000, 1976 CB550F, CT110 (2), XL125S (2), 1973 CB175K6. Kwaka Z250C1 (2). Suzuki GS450SX, DR250SJ, GS125ESD.    Report

02-10-2010, 12:26 PM CXTURBOBOOST Joined on 05-02-2007 Lincoln, NE Posts 440 Re: Jump Starting a Turbo I thought we were talking about the CXT? You don't need a vehicle running to jump a CXT. Just connect jumpers to a car battery and it starts fine. PK    Report

02-10-2010, 6:48 PM RichNCT Joined on 03-02-2006 Connecticut, USA Posts 3,463 Re: Jump Starting a Turbo Bandit,  I've said that myself, because I had never seen an explanation for why it would make a difference, or be damaging.  George's link gave some reasons that made sense to me.  I would still question how damaging it would be, as an overheating risk to the RR for a short period of time, but at least I know more about the possible reasons now. Don, I was only speaking of the CX/GL RRs.  I have little recent experience with anything else (last 20 years).  CX/GL RRs seem to go and go, like the Energizer Bunny!  And we've read (or written) enough stories of the abuse they get at times.  Still, the infrequent thread about a rider replacing one usually ends with "replacing the RR didn't help . . . anyone want to buy a good RR?" CXTURBOBOOST, Yeah, that's how it started, then in the interest of gaining knowledge it got sidetracked.  Sometimes the human curiosity is not satisfied knowing only what it needs to know.    And I can say from experience, the jumped vehicle spins faster when the jumping vehicle is running (higher voltage, of course).  That alone can help a reluctant engine fire up. I've learned from many many members on these forums, one thing or another.  But sometimes I have to ask a couple of times before it makes sense to me. Refueling on The James Bay Road, 2009 Born to be relatively wild (for a grampa x 3) GL650I, CX650E, CX650T    Report

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