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Technical Help Forum
Started by jwnovaman at 03-04-2010 2:50 PM. Topic has 19 replies.
  
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 03-04-2010, 2:50 PM
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jwnovaman
 
Joined on 07-27-2009
Portland Oregon
Posts 104
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sticking front brakes 1981 GL500I
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Here's the deal. I can get up in the morning get the bike out from where its parked but first I have to crack the bleaders on the front brakes(GL500I). If I get caught in the rain the front brakes will grab and stick with out being touched. The callipers are good and free and dont leak. The sliders and smooth. Would the MC be bad or should I look into front brake hoses. I get a weep when I crack the bleeders and the front brakes are free. I can use the front brakes while riding. I have a tendancy not to at the moment so they dont stick. I am a little on the confused side here with this one. Thanks
In my driveway a 1981 Gl500I, 1978 Nova
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03-04-2010, 3:26 PM
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peterL
Joined on 07-14-2007
Virginia
Posts 182
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Re: sticking front brakes 1981 GL500I
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i've seen people with this problem replace the calipers & then, that doesn't fix the problem. some other people on the forum discuss the need to keep the tiny 'return' orifice on the
m.c. open & that minimizes this problem. hth - peter l.
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03-04-2010, 4:21 PM
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rickbert
Joined on 01-05-2009
Missouri....60 mis East of KC
Posts 1,383
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Re: sticking front brakes 1981 GL500I
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My bet is you need to either rebuild the master cylinder or replace it....Ebay has some real nice looking "generic" master cylinders that fit about any bike that are better than the original stock.
1982 CX500C...22K miles...owned since 10/08
My age: 45
Bike's name: "Long Cool Woman in a Black Dress"
If you need to contact me personally send an email, I never get my pm's for some reason.
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03-04-2010, 4:32 PM
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jwnovaman
Joined on 07-27-2009
Portland Oregon
Posts 104
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Re: sticking front brakes 1981 GL500I
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I rebuilt the calipers and they are good. I am thinking your right on the MC. Thats my next step. I will try a rebuild first. Thanks guys
In my driveway a 1981 Gl500I, 1978 Nova
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03-04-2010, 4:48 PM
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Blindstitch
Joined on 03-14-2009
Greenfield Wisconsin
Posts 9,851
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Re: sticking front brakes 1981 GL500I
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If the MC doesn't fix it try to pick up some braided brake lines. If all the options are eliminated then it must fix it.
I did have a caliper once that stuck a lot and it looked great inside but still caused problems. David in Wisconsin took a look at it and said it was shot. Said the piston needed to be replace and probably something else.
1979 CX500 Supertanker
ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier.
Quick Reference
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03-04-2010, 4:59 PM
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jwnovaman
Joined on 07-27-2009
Portland Oregon
Posts 104
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Re: sticking front brakes 1981 GL500I
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i didnt replace the pistons. All worked well when I bench tested it but things always go well on the bench. Thats why we put back on the bike to find out it didnt work the way we wanted lol
In my driveway a 1981 Gl500I, 1978 Nova
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03-05-2010, 12:14 AM
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thederf
Joined on 06-12-2008
Posts 7
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Re: sticking front brakes 1981 GL500I
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This same thing happened to me this past year. I too rebuilt the caliper and replaced the brake line. at first I never suspected the master cylinder due to just rebuilding in at the begining of the year. but it turned out that it was not releasing the pressure after I released, just kept adding to it, even when not using the brake. I just replaced the MC and problem solved. hope it help you.
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03-05-2010, 3:24 PM
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WisconsinCX
Joined on 07-07-2008
Germantown, WI
Posts 771
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Re: sticking front brakes 1981 GL500I
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Ok, for the thousand'th time....Old Bikes mean old brakes...Clean and rebuild them from top to bottom. The parts are cheap in comparison to what they do. I don't understand why you guys with brake problems do not rebuild the entire system. In my book brakes that are working 100% are really really important, and the only way to guarantee that they do is to REBUILD THEM FROM TOP TO BOTTOM.
Would you let your family get in the car if you knew the brakes were suspect?????
I can see it on your headstone...
HERE LIES DAVE
TOO CHEAP TO SPEND 50 BUCKS ON A BRAKE REBUILD KIT
83 CB1100F Super Sport
No Twins at this time. :( Went through about 12 of them tho!
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03-05-2010, 3:51 PM
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Blindstitch
Joined on 03-14-2009
Greenfield Wisconsin
Posts 9,851
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Re: sticking front brakes 1981 GL500I
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 WisconsinCX wrote: |
I can see it on your headstone...
HERE LIES DAVE
TOO CHEAP TO SPEND 50 BUCKS ON A BRAKE REBUILD KIT
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Where did they get all the money to carve the extra words on the headstone?
1979 CX500 Supertanker
ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier.
Quick Reference
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03-05-2010, 6:12 PM
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WisconsinCX
Joined on 07-07-2008
Germantown, WI
Posts 771
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Re: sticking front brakes 1981 GL500I
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The money he saved on brake rebuild kits.
:)
83 CB1100F Super Sport
No Twins at this time. :( Went through about 12 of them tho!
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03-05-2010, 6:33 PM
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jayhanig
Joined on 08-23-2008
Topsail Beach, NC USA
Posts 927
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Re: sticking front brakes 1981 GL500I
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| WisconsinCX wrote: | | Ok, for the thousand'th time....Old Bikes mean old brakes...Clean and rebuild them from top to bottom. The parts are cheap in comparison to what they do. I don't understand why you guys with brake problems do not rebuild the entire system. In my book brakes that are working 100% are really really important, and the only way to guarantee that they do is to REBUILD THEM FROM TOP TO BOTTOM. |
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I'm not too cheap to rebuild mine; I just don't know how. As usual, I'm afraid of converting my working bike into a hangar queen. I do have that talent.
Jay
82 GL500 Silverwing (naked)
Age 55
Dress for the slide.... not for the ride.
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03-05-2010, 6:52 PM
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Blindstitch
Joined on 03-14-2009
Greenfield Wisconsin
Posts 9,851
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Re: sticking front brakes 1981 GL500I
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If you have dual disc it's probably time to learn how to do it. I bet one could take a bolt, nut, and 2 brake washers and clamp it down tight on the cable of the one being serviced and it would leave the other functional.
It's never to late to learn how to do things. It's pretty simple work. Don't forget to pump the pistons out first or they wont be coming out.
1979 CX500 Supertanker
ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier.
Quick Reference
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03-05-2010, 6:57 PM
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Blindstitch
Joined on 03-14-2009
Greenfield Wisconsin
Posts 9,851
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Re: sticking front brakes 1981 GL500I
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Or it could be disabled at the triple for a naked bike. Probably just need an equal thickness nut to take the place of where the brake like connects up to #5.
1979 CX500 Supertanker
ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier.
Quick Reference
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03-06-2010, 7:09 PM
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WisconsinCX
Joined on 07-07-2008
Germantown, WI
Posts 771
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Re: sticking front brakes 1981 GL500I
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| jayhanig wrote: | | WisconsinCX wrote: | | Ok, for the thousand'th time....Old Bikes mean old brakes...Clean and rebuild them from top to bottom. The parts are cheap in comparison to what they do. I don't understand why you guys with brake problems do not rebuild the entire system. In my book brakes that are working 100% are really really important, and the only way to guarantee that they do is to REBUILD THEM FROM TOP TO BOTTOM. |
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I'm not too cheap to rebuild mine; I just don't know how. As usual, I'm afraid of converting my working bike into a hangar queen. I do have that talent
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An incredibly simple system. No special tools. A dremel tool with a brass wire detail brush to clean the grooves in the caliper that have the white crust of death in them is about it. If you can make toast you can rebuild a brake system.
If you cannot get it done please have someone do it. Fred Flintstone braking style is not acceptable.
83 CB1100F Super Sport
No Twins at this time. :( Went through about 12 of them tho!
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03-06-2010, 7:41 PM
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Blindstitch
Joined on 03-14-2009
Greenfield Wisconsin
Posts 9,851
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Re: sticking front brakes 1981 GL500I
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What kind of toast? and isn't a dremel a special tool.
1979 CX500 Supertanker
ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier.
Quick Reference
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03-07-2010, 5:17 AM
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midatlantic cruiser
Joined on 10-01-2009
Bel Air MD USA
Posts 23
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Re: sticking front brakes 1981 GL500I
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Cycle World magazine covered this return hole being kept open in their Feb or January issue. Either way it sounds like tear down and rebuild time.
83 GL650I
Just fast enough to get ya in and out of trouble
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03-07-2010, 10:30 AM
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jwnovaman
Joined on 07-27-2009
Portland Oregon
Posts 104
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Re: sticking front brakes 1981 GL500I
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Just so every one knows I did do a complete reuild. That's why I am posting my issue here. Just looking for a possible issue that might be there that a rebuild didn't fix. Sorry if I sounded like I didn't. Don't really dig the whole your to cheap and unsafe bit. I am doing the same thing I would do at work when I come accross an issue I am having trouble with. I am not one who doesn't know how to turn a wrench. I am using a tool that can help me figure out my problem. Love this forrum but some people come off with the your dumb cause you didn't do this right or do that right. As far as my skills go I am confident in my abilities but know when to ask for help. That's all I was doing so sorry if I offended some one.
In my driveway a 1981 Gl500I, 1978 Nova
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03-08-2010, 9:51 PM
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DavidfromWisconsin
Joined on 03-19-2008
Appleton, WI
Posts 2,458
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Re: sticking front brakes 1981 GL500I
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- Did you totally disassemble the master cylinder? (Reservoir off)
- Did you completely disassemble the caliper/s?
- Did you get rebuild kits or reuse the old parts?
- Did you check the hoses for the free flow of fluid?
- Did you replace the brake line? (Best thing to do on a bike this old.)
I will admit that I sent you an email before I read through this whole posting thinking you were asking for rebuilding help ... sorry I didn't read the whole thing first.
David From Wisconsin ... R80Dave
'82 GL500I alias Candy
'82 GL500I alias Candy II
'00 BMW K1200LT & trailer
'81 KZ440 (Wife's learning bike)
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03-09-2010, 4:42 AM
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RichNCT
Joined on 03-02-2006
Connecticut, USA
Posts 3,463
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Re: sticking front brakes 1981 GL500I
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If the the calipers tend to lock up or stay engaged to the disk, try cracking bleeder. If that releases the caliper, it's likely the small small hole in the MC that's plugged with crusted brake fluid, and needs to be cleaned out. This hole can "disappear" when clogged. there are two holes in the bottom of the reservoir area, it's the small one you may not be able to see easily, it's in a small depression in the floor.
If opening the bleeder does not release the caliper, it is likely the caliper seals are not sliding. This can be caused by the pistons being too rough on the OD (emery then smooth) or the seals pushing too hard on the pistons, often caused by the seal grooves crudded up. These grooves must be very delibertly scraped clean with a pick of some sord. New seals are recommended as the original ones may be more than 25 years old.
Lastly, but not often, internally collapsing brake lines can create a "one way valve" effect. This would be unlikely. Despite the fervent advice to replace brake lines (and it is good advive) I have never seen or personally known of a sudden or catastrophic brake line failure.
I'm at a loss for why rain would cause this to happen.
Refueling on The James Bay Road, 2009
Born to be relatively wild (for a grampa x 3)
GL650I, CX650E, CX650T
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03-17-2010, 10:47 AM
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Sidecar Bob
Joined on 03-02-2006
Kawartha Lakes, Ontario
Posts 1,899
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Re: sticking front brakes 1981 GL500I
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| jwnovaman wrote: | | Just so every one knows I did do a complete reuild. |
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If you didn't rebuild the master cylinder and replace all of the rubber parts (including the lines) the rebuild wasn't complete.
Order the parts and plan to finish the job as soon as possible and in the meantime get a sewing needle and clean out the master cylinder's return port:
If you look in the bottom of the master cylinder you will see two holes drilled about 1/8" into the metal. In the bottoms of those holes you should see tiny holes that go right through to the bore that the m/c piston moves in. One admits fluid into the cylinder so that it can be pumped into the brake line when you squeeze the lever. The other one allows the fluid to return to the reservoir when the lever is released.
For some reason, the one that lets the fluid return tends to become blocked. In some cases it will look like the tiny hole was never drilled.
The proper solution is to disassemble the master cylinder and use a sewing needle to clear the hole. It is possible to clear the hole without dismantling, but that may leave the hard piece of debris in the bore that can lead to a scratched bore, a scratched (& therefore leaking) rubber cup or both, so it is not usually advisable.
In your case, I would try passing a needle through the port and see if the brakes start to function properly. If they do you have found the problem. Order the parts and rebuild it properly ASAP.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1000/Dnepr) summer
The Famous Eccles ('84 GX650EI/Velorex700) winter
WHY I HAVEN"T BEEN AROUND MUCH LATELY
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Honda CX500 & G... » CX500 GL500 Tra... » Technical Help ... » sticking front brakes 1981 GL500I
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