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03-09-2010, 6:51 AM bri-guy-ga Joined on 06-04-2008 Powder Springs, GA Posts 702 Honda craking down on online manuals Seems Honda has its lawyers looking for online versions of its manuals.  Here is a link where they go after goldwingdocs.com. If you don't have it already, make sure you download the manuals you need. 1982 GL500i (currently being rebuilt from ground up) NO! Try not. Do or do not do. There is no try - Yoda    Report

03-09-2010, 10:58 AM marshallf3 Joined on 01-12-2009 Oklahoma City Posts 1,551 Re: Honda craking down on online manuals My question to them is why would they care when the Honda dealers will not even touch our bikes? I went to one to see what they'd charge me to change out the fork seals and even with me bringing the parts they wouldn't touch it. Said they'd change my oil but that was the only thing they'd do. 1979 CX500C ░░░░░░░ 96 & 98 GTP, 78 Chevy G30 400V8, 78 Gremlin 304V8, 65 Barracuda 273V8    Report

03-09-2010, 4:21 PM Blindstitch Joined on 03-14-2009 Greenfield Wisconsin Posts 9,863 Re: Honda craking down on online manuals That's why that one manuals site we were using went down. but then again I have 4 or 5 manuals and hard copies. What I should really do is see if I can take the fsn in pdf form and shrink it way down. Hell it's only black and white. 1979 CX500 Supertanker ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier. Quick Reference    Report

03-09-2010, 4:52 PM Trickster Joined on 03-06-2010 Alberta Posts 164 Re: Honda craking down on online manuals New to your site and now an owner of a 1979 CX500 Custom, without a manual. Where if at all could I download the original owners manual? Could you provide a link? Thanks in advance, Rick 1979 CX500 Custom 1978 GL1000    Report

03-09-2010, 5:13 PM Blindstitch Joined on 03-14-2009 Greenfield Wisconsin Posts 9,863 Re: Honda craking down on online manuals Here. http://drop.io/CX500_GL500?page=4 There are 25 or so chapters for individual download. 1979 CX500 Supertanker ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier. Quick Reference    Report

03-09-2010, 5:33 PM Trickster Joined on 03-06-2010 Alberta Posts 164 Re: Honda craking down on online manuals There are 25 or so chapters for individual download. TYVM 1979 CX500 Custom 1978 GL1000    Report

03-09-2010, 6:17 PM marshallf3 Joined on 01-12-2009 Oklahoma City Posts 1,551 Re: Honda craking down on online manuals Trickster, I've got an original 1980 CX500C manual but haven't scanned it yet. Same thing actually. I did scan the factory setup guide, just haven't fed it up yet because I think it's already there. 1979 CX500C ░░░░░░░ 96 & 98 GTP, 78 Chevy G30 400V8, 78 Gremlin 304V8, 65 Barracuda 273V8    Report

03-09-2010, 7:40 PM Trickster Joined on 03-06-2010 Alberta Posts 164 Re: Honda craking down on online manuals Marshall, as the owner of the same bike I just bought, and me being a newbie to this era of Honda, what should I keep an eye on as far as predictable problems? The cam chain,gear,tensioner have just been replaced. Thaanks, Rick 1979 CX500 Custom 1978 GL1000    Report

03-10-2010, 12:37 PM marshallf3 Joined on 01-12-2009 Oklahoma City Posts 1,551 Re: Honda craking down on online manuals New timing chain means keep a sharp eye on adjusting it for a while as it settles in. If it were mine I'd do the first tweak after 100 miles, then a couple of more checks every 500 or so. Keep the oil changed as it's shared by the transmission and has to undergo a lot of shear pressure thus it breaks down a lot quicker. I use Shell Rotella 15W-40 that's made for the big trucks and considering how easy and inexpensive it is to do so I became a fanatic about this. I don't bother with the filter every time, just keeping fresh oil in there is sufficient. In all honesty when these things are running they will continue to do so forever with minor maintenance only an occasional minor repair. 1979 CX500C ░░░░░░░ 96 & 98 GTP, 78 Chevy G30 400V8, 78 Gremlin 304V8, 65 Barracuda 273V8    Report

03-10-2010, 1:03 PM SiriusBlackOp Joined on 06-15-2009 Hudson, WI Posts 445 Re: Honda craking down on online manuals I'm not even sure that Copyright protection really exists for manuals. http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/usc_sec_17_00000102----000-.aspx § 102. Subject matter of copyright: In general (a) Copyright protection subsists, in accordance with this title, in original works of authorship fixed in any tangible medium of expression, now known or later developed, from which they can be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated, either directly or with the aid of a machine or device. Works of authorship include the following categories: --(1) literary works; --(2) musical works, including any accompanying words; --(3) dramatic works, including any accompanying music; --(4) pantomimes and choreographic works; --(5) pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works; --(6) motion pictures and other audiovisual works; --(7) sound recordings; and --(8) architectural works. (b) In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work. Are you sure this isn't just a scare tactic???? 1981 Honda GL500    Report

03-10-2010, 1:07 PM bri-guy-ga Joined on 06-04-2008 Powder Springs, GA Posts 702 Re: Honda craking down on online manuals Probably, but they did have lawyers contact goldwingdocs.com so they must feel they are right.  I don't know whey they care though.  They haven't made the books for these bikes in what 20 years? 1982 GL500i (currently being rebuilt from ground up) NO! Try not. Do or do not do. There is no try - Yoda    Report

03-10-2010, 1:42 PM SiriusBlackOp Joined on 06-15-2009 Hudson, WI Posts 445 Re: Honda craking down on online manuals  bri-guy-ga wrote: Probably, but they did have lawyers contact goldwingdocs.com so they must feel they are right.  I don't know whey they care though.  They haven't made the books for these bikes in what 20 years? Yeah, no one ever contacts a lawyer to scare people and lie for them.  LOL! I Just read this I think Honda loses this battle in a court of law. The only reason SMS won in that case is because it was a manual  that creatively described a method of interpersonal communication. Are you telling me that Honda took a creative approach to describing how to use their equipment that you now own?  Its a Technical Manual for a piece of equipment you OWN!! That's Bull Shit!!!  I can see that maybe portions of a Hayes manual are copyrightable because it creatively builds on facts from Honda Manuals, but Honda's Manual itself should not be protected by copyright.  F U Honda!! You hired a technical writer to factually document the operation and maintenance of your equipment.  You did so also because you had to in order to sell more bikes and make customers/dealers/shops happy.  Your copyright is crap. What they really want is for all these old bikes to die off due to a lack of data so you will buy new. Grrrrrrr... I'm pissed off now! 1981 Honda GL500    Report

03-10-2010, 2:01 PM marshallf3 Joined on 01-12-2009 Oklahoma City Posts 1,551 Re: Honda craking down on online manuals What we need is a lawyer with extra time to join the forum. If your dealers won't work on them and you don't understand that having some 30 year old Hondas still on the street isn't a selling point ..... 1979 CX500C ░░░░░░░ 96 & 98 GTP, 78 Chevy G30 400V8, 78 Gremlin 304V8, 65 Barracuda 273V8    Report

03-10-2010, 2:21 PM marshallf3 Joined on 01-12-2009 Oklahoma City Posts 1,551 Re: Honda craking down on online manuals OK, here's the story. I had to poke around a bit on the phone but I got to someone at Honda in authority. The manuals are considered to be proprietary to Honda and Helm holds the distribution rights. A full repro service manual is only $34 http://www.helminc.com He did however agree that us keeping these on the street was not only admirable but a good sales tool for their company. He also knew about the Goldwing site being shut down. They've had several complaints already and are re-evaluating their decision in time. 1979 CX500C ░░░░░░░ 96 & 98 GTP, 78 Chevy G30 400V8, 78 Gremlin 304V8, 65 Barracuda 273V8    Report

03-10-2010, 2:46 PM Randall-in-Mpls Joined on 07-06-2007 Minneapolis, MN Posts 2,630 Re: Honda craking down on online manuals If I understand correctly, Honda is obligated to protect its copyrights because of its contract with Helm.  Helm can't enforce the copyrights, because it doesn't own them.  But as the exclusive reproducer, it can demand that Honda enforce them.  Aside from that contract, Honda probably wouldn't care. I do think that Honda's lawyers could have gone about the matter more productively.  Specifically, their notice to cease and desist should have included a reference to the availability of the materials from Helm.  That would have cooled the rage of those who think they are out of print and now unavailable. R '78 CX500 - Black Maggot --> Green Grub / Yellow Grub / Red Grub ???    Report

03-10-2010, 2:53 PM ride/hike Joined on 02-24-2010 North Carolina Posts 53 Re: Honda craking down on online manuals Been looking at the online manuals on this site, but purchased a 78 to 83 CX & GL 500/650 Clymer Manual this week. It looks like it covers all the work I plan to do on this bike.Cost about the same as the reproduced Honda manual. Happy there is a group like this one where you can get advice/information. I really appreciate the group buy on the (non-Honda) Ignitech ignition system. Bill Converting 1980 CX500D 38,000 miles, to a Cafe Racer    Report

03-10-2010, 6:13 PM marshallf3 Joined on 01-12-2009 Oklahoma City Posts 1,551 Re: Honda craking down on online manuals To quote an old cliche I think you hit the nail on the head. I have a lot of marketing experience from college, not my job but with a little help from us perhaps we can make a few changes. I'm not opposed to paying $34 for an original service manual if that's going to make them happy but I've already got a copy thanks to everyone's contributions to the outer website. In my opinion, Honda should capitalize on the durability of some of their bikes. Granted - only certain models fall under this classification - but it's a sales point. How many motorcycles do you know of that last past 5 years? BTW: that Clymer man isn't going anywhere near what we all need for reference. 1979 CX500C ░░░░░░░ 96 & 98 GTP, 78 Chevy G30 400V8, 78 Gremlin 304V8, 65 Barracuda 273V8    Report

03-12-2010, 8:43 AM jag312 Joined on 01-03-2008 San Jose, California Posts 38 Re: Honda craking down on online manuals I have two factory service manuals for my 79 CX500 Deluxe. One is a US version and the other is a British version. They are actually written a little differently. So which version is Helm selling; the US version or the British version? I picked up the US version from a Honda dealer for 5 or 6 bucks who said that they didn't need it anymore because they were not going to repair our bikes anymore. I would be happy to buy a new CX500 Deluxe that is lighter, with better electronics, with fuel injection, with better braking, etc. if only Honda would make it. Until then, I'll keep my old bike and keep fixing it when it needs it. 1979 CX500 Deluxe    Report

03-31-2010, 7:54 PM JustPaul Joined on 03-24-2010 Boise Idaho Posts 82 Re: Honda craking down on online manuals I am wondering if anyone has tried to have their downloaded shop manual pdf files printed by a print shop like kinkos? Will they do it or do they balk because of copywright? Of course if they will, it will probably cost more than $34...... 1982 CX500 Custom - ~ 24k miles 1984 Sabre VF700s - ~ 57k miles    Report

03-31-2010, 8:08 PM Blindstitch Joined on 03-14-2009 Greenfield Wisconsin Posts 9,863 Re: Honda craking down on online manuals I think only and idiot would try to go to kinkos with one. And you are right it would cost an arm and a leg. But why. You can get the honda manual or any manual for 1/2 the price of what kinkos could do them. The only easy way would be to print it off on a black and white laser printer. I seem to think I did this once even though I already had a printed copy. I think someone else needed one. 1979 CX500 Supertanker ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier. Quick Reference    Report

04-07-2010, 12:04 PM Sidecar Bob Joined on 03-02-2006 Kawartha Lakes, Ontario Posts 1,901 Re: Honda craking down on online manuals  SiriusBlackOp wrote: I'm not even sure that Copyright protection really exists for manuals. http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/usc_sec_17_00000102----000-.aspx § 102. Subject matter of copyright: In general (a) Copyright protection subsists, in accordance with this title, in original works of authorship fixed in any tangible medium of expression, now known or later developed, from which they can be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated, either directly or with the aid of a machine or device. Works of authorship include the following categories: --(1) literary works; --(2) musical works, including any accompanying words; --(3) dramatic works, including any accompanying music; --(4) pantomimes and choreographic works; --(5) pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works; --(6) motion pictures and other audiovisual works; --(7) sound recordings; and --(8) architectural works. (b) In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work. Are you sure this isn't just a scare tactic???? "Literary works" includes technical literature as well as novels. Mr. Honda ('83 GL1000/Dnepr) summer The Famous Eccles ('84 GX650EI/Velorex700) winter WHY I HAVEN"T BEEN AROUND MUCH LATELY    Report

04-07-2010, 12:38 PM SiriusBlackOp Joined on 06-15-2009 Hudson, WI Posts 445 Re: Honda craking down on online manuals After thinking on it, I think what that actually says is that the manual is protected under copyright, but the ideas and procedures inside of it are not copyrightable. Thus, companies like Hayes can take the information in the Honda Manual and use it to create their own books in their own format, which are also copyright protected, but once again the ideas and procedures are not. Someone could make their own manual based on the procedures in the Honda Manual and distribute it on their own. That's the way I read that anyway. 1981 Honda GL500    Report

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