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General Discussion
Started by sendin at 03-09-2010 11:15 AM. Topic has 36 replies.
  
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 03-09-2010, 11:15 AM
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sendin
 
Joined on 06-18-2008
Sebastopol
Posts 75
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What is the best method to make sure the charging circuit for the battery is working correctly? I have a 1981 GL 500 Interstate.
I know it is here somewhere!
Thank you -
Denny from Sebastopol, CA
'81 GL500I
Molon Labe
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03-09-2010, 11:23 AM
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DaveF
Joined on 06-11-2008
Lawrenceville, GA
Posts 1,232
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Re: charging circuit test
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03-09-2010, 11:39 AM
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sendin
Joined on 06-18-2008
Sebastopol
Posts 75
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Re: charging circuit test
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Thank you Dave.
'81 GL500I
Molon Labe
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03-10-2010, 6:11 PM
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sendin
Joined on 06-18-2008
Sebastopol
Posts 75
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Re: charging circuit test
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Also, when running at about 2,000 RPM the voltage was about 12.34 volts at the battery. Battery seems to take a charge nicely and reads about 12.87 volts with the ignition off. Drops to about 10.8 or so when starting.
'81 GL500I
Molon Labe
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03-10-2010, 6:51 PM
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DaveF
Joined on 06-11-2008
Lawrenceville, GA
Posts 1,232
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Re: charging circuit test
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 sendin wrote: | | Stator to ground was fine on all three yellow stator wires, but the resistance between yellow stator wires were ALL three infinity which seems pretty weird with what little I know about stators... |
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Agreed. The odds of this happening are extremely remote, so much so that there must surely be something wrong with the measurement itself.
If you touch the meter leads together, do they read a short?
My Web Site
1982 GL500
1983 GL650
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03-10-2010, 7:17 PM
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sendin
Joined on 06-18-2008
Sebastopol
Posts 75
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Re: charging circuit test
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They read the resistance of the leads or short. Can't remember.
'81 GL500I
Molon Labe
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03-10-2010, 7:21 PM
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sendin
Joined on 06-18-2008
Sebastopol
Posts 75
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Re: charging circuit test
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Resistance of the leads. Duh!
'81 GL500I
Molon Labe
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03-10-2010, 7:24 PM
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DaveF
Joined on 06-11-2008
Lawrenceville, GA
Posts 1,232
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Re: charging circuit test
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From your voltage measurements the charging circuit is definitely not working.
Is there any chance the stator leads have been cut or broken? Are you certain the cable that goes to the engine was measured, and not the one that goes to the regulator/rectifier?
If there really is an open circuit between the stator windings that would explain why the charging circuit is not working. It's hard to imagine how all three are open unless there was some common problem that took them all out at once.
My Web Site
1982 GL500
1983 GL650
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03-10-2010, 7:31 PM
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sendin
Joined on 06-18-2008
Sebastopol
Posts 75
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Re: charging circuit test
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I measured the female part of the connector with the three yellow wires and not the stationary receptacle part. I measured the resistance between each yellow wire on the VOM low setting which is the same as yours, 200 ohms. I thought I was following the instructions from the link you sent correctly - perhaps not.
'81 GL500I
Molon Labe
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03-10-2010, 7:34 PM
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DaveF
Joined on 06-11-2008
Lawrenceville, GA
Posts 1,232
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Re: charging circuit test
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I think that's the problem. The cable that goes to the stator has male terminals, as seen in this photo.
My Web Site
1982 GL500
1983 GL650
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03-10-2010, 7:49 PM
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sendin
Joined on 06-18-2008
Sebastopol
Posts 75
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Re: charging circuit test
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This is humbling. I measured the CORRECT side of the connector this time and got 0.7 ohms 0.7 ohms and 0.6 ohms. On the to the voltage check!
'81 GL500I
Molon Labe
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03-11-2010, 4:30 AM
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DaveF
Joined on 06-11-2008
Lawrenceville, GA
Posts 1,232
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Re: charging circuit test
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Nothing to worry about. It's no big deal and an easy mistake to make.
I appreciate the feedback - knowing that you ran into some confusion means that others will likely experience the same. Within the next few days I'll revise the writeup to further clarify which cable connector end is which.
My Web Site
1982 GL500
1983 GL650
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03-11-2010, 7:07 AM
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Abes_CW
Joined on 04-17-2007
saskatoon
Posts 3,021
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Re: charging circuit test
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Sendin, check AC voltage between the yellow wires, 2 at a time.
1983 GL650i
Had 4 CX/GL's at one point this year, down to one, next spring is another adventure!
age 38 (29 plus tax)
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03-11-2010, 9:23 AM
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Eurovee.
Joined on 12-29-2006
Euroland
Posts 513
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Re: charging circuit test
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| sendin wrote: | | This is humbling. I measured the CORRECT side of the connector this time and got 0.7 ohms 0.7 ohms and 0.6 ohms. On the to the voltage check! |
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Now that you`re on the right side of the connector,check for any circuit to earth..
CX650 Eurosprout
CX500 Eurospurt
GL650 Silverthing
CX/GL 500 CX-periment
24 years and 140,000 miles a CXian...
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03-14-2010, 10:55 AM
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DaveF
Joined on 06-11-2008
Lawrenceville, GA
Posts 1,232
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Re: charging circuit test
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| sendin wrote: | | Also, when running at about 2,000 RPM the voltage was about 12.34 volts at the battery. Battery seems to take a charge nicely and reads about 12.87 volts with the ignition off. Drops to about 10.8 or so when starting. |
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If I'm understanding this correctly, the battery voltage was 12.87 volts with the engine off (no load on the battery). But if the engine was started and run at 2000 rpm the battery voltage dropped to 12.34. This would indicate the charging circuit is not working, but the problem is likely not the battery as its voltages are within range.
Or do you mean the battery voltage had risen as a result of running the engine? This would indicate the battery was being charged.
It's important to know whether the voltage increased or decreased after starting the engine and running it at 2000 rpm.
My Web Site
1982 GL500
1983 GL650
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03-14-2010, 11:12 AM
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sendin
Joined on 06-18-2008
Sebastopol
Posts 75
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Re: charging circuit test
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At 2000 RPM
'81 GL500I
Molon Labe
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03-14-2010, 11:43 AM
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DaveF
Joined on 06-11-2008
Lawrenceville, GA
Posts 1,232
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Re: charging circuit test
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It's definitely not charging but I don't think it's the battery. Were all the voltage and resistance measurements reasonable? What were the readings?
Have you checked the grounds and such as described in the writeup?
My Web Site
1982 GL500
1983 GL650
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03-14-2010, 12:32 PM
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DaveF
Joined on 06-11-2008
Lawrenceville, GA
Posts 1,232
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Re: charging circuit test
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Your measurements indicate the stator is fine. There's not much left except for wiring, poor connections, bad grounds, and such. This is probably the area to concentrate on next.
Let's make some more measurements. With the stator connector plugged in, what are the three AC voltage measurements with the engine running at 2000 rpm?
Another measurement is a DC voltage measurement, with the negative meter lead connected to the negative battery terminal. Measure the voltage on the regulator/rectifier black wire with the engine running at 2000 rpm.
The regulator/rectifier could also be bad but they are extremely reliable. If all the wiring checks out, that would be the next thing to try.
What model is the CX parts bike? It may be possible to use its regulator/rectifier for troubleshooting even if it won't physically fit.
My Web Site
1982 GL500
1983 GL650
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03-14-2010, 3:37 PM
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sendin
Joined on 06-18-2008
Sebastopol
Posts 75
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Re: charging circuit test
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Voltages (not that french spelling)
'81 GL500I
Molon Labe
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03-14-2010, 4:51 PM
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DaveF
Joined on 06-11-2008
Lawrenceville, GA
Posts 1,232
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Re: charging circuit test
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The black wire is a sensing input to the regulator/rectifier. With 12.2 V, the regulator/rectifier should be providing significant current to the load.
Let's check two more DC voltages, both taken with the bike running at 2000 rpm. The points to measure are the green wire and the red/white wire at the regulator/rectifier connector.
Depending on the outcome, the next step may be to swap out the regulator/rectifier.
The 1980 CX regulator/rectifier is compatible with the GL so it can be swapped in for troubleshooting. Unplug the GL regulator/rectifier and connect the CX unit in its place. The connectors may not fit together so you may have to get creative about making the connections. Simply match up the wire colors.
There is no need to cut any wires. The terminal pins can be removed from the connector shell with a jeweler's screwdriver.
Alternately, if you are not comfortable with this you could swap in another GL regulator/rectifier. I can drop one in the mail to you if we get to that point.
My Web Site
1982 GL500
1983 GL650
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03-14-2010, 5:45 PM
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DaveF
Joined on 06-11-2008
Lawrenceville, GA
Posts 1,232
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Re: charging circuit test
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These look correct.
Let's try swapping out the regulator/rectifier next. Are you comfortable with using the CX unit?
My Web Site
1982 GL500
1983 GL650
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03-14-2010, 6:44 PM
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sendin
Joined on 06-18-2008
Sebastopol
Posts 75
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Re: charging circuit test
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Yes - I will try to do it when I get home from work tomorrow unless I get a wild hair and do it tonight. Gotta eat dinner now and I sure do appreciate your generous help. Denny
'81 GL500I
Molon Labe
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03-15-2010, 4:50 AM
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DaveF
Joined on 06-11-2008
Lawrenceville, GA
Posts 1,232
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Re: charging circuit test
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| sendin wrote: | | ...tested to ground and the meter starts off with a very high reading and then goes to OL (open)... |
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This doesn't seem right. Normally when this type of meter action occurs it is due to a capacitor charging in the circuit under test. But the stator should not be acting like a capacitor. Perhaps there really is a high resistance path to ground in the stator. Or it could be the insulation is breaking down when voltage is present (i.e. rotor turning at speed).
The meter should have been set to its highest resistance range for the measurement to ground. If you have access to another meter, you may want to repeat the measurement with it.
Let's perform some more testing. Unplug the stator connector and run the engine at 2000 rpm. Set the meter to measure AC volts and connect one meter lead to the negative battery terminal. Use the other meter lead to measure each of the stator wires, in turn.
I think we're fast closing in on the problem. It has certainly been an interesting one.
My Web Site
1982 GL500
1983 GL650
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03-15-2010, 9:36 AM
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sendin
Joined on 06-18-2008
Sebastopol
Posts 75
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Re: charging circuit test
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The meter was set to 2000M (I think just like yours). It is a fluke type VOM sold by Sears from the 90's. Maybe it needs a fresh 9V Bat ?
I will do that test when I get home before I take off the reg/rect from the parts bike.
'81 GL500I
Molon Labe
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03-15-2010, 3:45 PM
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sendin
Joined on 06-18-2008
Sebastopol
Posts 75
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Re: charging circuit test
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From Neg Bat to each Stator coil (meter on AC) 11.6V , 12.2V & 12.2V
'81 GL500I
Molon Labe
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03-15-2010, 4:43 PM
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DaveF
Joined on 06-11-2008
Lawrenceville, GA
Posts 1,232
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Re: charging circuit test
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Based on all we've seen, and the last measurements in particular, I think the stator may have a high resistance path to ground. These voltages should have been zero.
If the battery in the meter is old it would be a good idea to replace it. It's
especially difficult to troubleshoot if the test equipment is suspect.
It would be worthwhile to repeat the resistance to ground tests several times. Does the meter reading always behave the same way, where it reads a high value and then gradually increases to open? What is the initial high value? If you swap the meter leads does the reading change?
Swapping out the regulator/rectifier would probably be a good idea just so it can be eliminated as the potential problem.
My Web Site
1982 GL500
1983 GL650
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03-15-2010, 5:02 PM
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sendin
Joined on 06-18-2008
Sebastopol
Posts 75
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Re: charging circuit test
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Should I use the reg/rect off the parts bike? I am making an adapter for the dissimilar connector. The two greens and the two red/whites on the CX can be combined for this connection, right? I have a new 9v bat for the VOM and will repeat tests.
'81 GL500I
Molon Labe
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03-15-2010, 5:13 PM
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DaveF
Joined on 06-11-2008
Lawrenceville, GA
Posts 1,232
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Re: charging circuit test
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Yes, you can use the regulator/rectifier from the parts bike.
Wires of the same color can be combined together.
My Web Site
1982 GL500
1983 GL650
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03-15-2010, 5:28 PM
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sendin
Joined on 06-18-2008
Sebastopol
Posts 75
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Re: charging circuit test
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Fresh bat in the VOM shows high resistance to ground on all three. Too bad for me. This is a job I probably cannot do with my schedule and projects already in the works.
'81 GL500I
Molon Labe
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03-15-2010, 5:35 PM
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DaveF
Joined on 06-11-2008
Lawrenceville, GA
Posts 1,232
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Re: charging circuit test
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Sorry to hear that. I was really hoping it was the regulator/rectifier.
Perhaps you'll be able to take on the job sometime in the not-too-distant future. In the meantime, the bike can be ridden but the battery will have to be charged externally.
My Web Site
1982 GL500
1983 GL650
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03-15-2010, 6:29 PM
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sendin
Joined on 06-18-2008
Sebastopol
Posts 75
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Re: charging circuit test
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OK Thanks Dave - You saved me from what probably would've been a goose chase. Maybe I'll do what you suggest because I use if for commuting, not much else and it is only 15 miles each way. The only bike that I think I might like better is an older Councours. I am into my 2nd year of starting a farm while doing a full 9 to 5 - so that means no time and no money! Thanks again - Denny
'81 GL500I
Molon Labe
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Honda CX500 & G... » CX500 GL500 Tra... » General Discuss... » charging circuit test
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