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General Discussion
Started by JWC at 03-10-2010 6:56 PM. Topic has 15 replies.
  
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 03-10-2010, 6:56 PM
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JWC
 
Joined on 07-08-2009
Urbana, Illinois
Posts 83
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![Indifferent [:|]](http://choppercharles.com/cs/emoticons/emotion-8.gif)
Diagnose This
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Just got her all put back together. Primed her, she is runnin' smooth. Drove to the gas station, 2 miles, topped her off. Headin' south another 2 miles in this 72 degree weather we're havin' in central Illinois. I turn right onto Windsor Road, give her the gas, pop, sputter, backfire, dies. Try to start, backfire, extreme compression, knockin around the starter while trying to start. I call AAA for a tow. They inform me the motorcylcle isn't covered for roadside service. I tell her, I'll take care of it myself. Call the son-in-law, load it on the trailer and trailer it home. Backed her into the garage. Still won't start.
Any ideas. I've got a few thoughts but would like to hear from ya'll.
Thanks, -Jon
1982 Sliverwing GL500i
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03-10-2010, 7:54 PM
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Blindstitch
Joined on 03-14-2009
Greenfield Wisconsin
Posts 9,863
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Well the goal is to eliminate areas where the problem could be.
First check the plugs. Then I would see about ticking it over with some starting fluid. If it fires then I would search out fuel.
Any chance you flipped it to reserve sucking water in?
Well if it fires over on starting fluid then chase down the carb/fuel problem. If not hunt down the electrical fun.
1979 CX500 Supertanker
ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier.
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03-10-2010, 8:00 PM
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Honda_Nut
Joined on 03-08-2010
Montana
Posts 21
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Sounds like what happens when the petcock or fuel line gets plugged. I always try to install a clear filter in the fuel line so I can make sure gas is at least getting to the carbs. On my new-to-me bike, the petcock is plugged in the normal position, but working in reserve (for now).
1980 CX500C
68k Miles
1981 GL500i
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03-11-2010, 3:00 AM
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Spacetiger
Joined on 05-16-2009
Chantilly, VA
Posts 1,355
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Tell us what you ment by: "extreme compression and knockin around the starter"
Are there much different sounds now?
You said you got her put back together. What did you do?
Jerry
90 PC 800 (commuting steed)
82 GL500I (50+mpg, great bike)
66 BMW R 50/2 (No brakes/HP)
80 CX500C (Loved this bike)
74 CB360 (Fun; but too small)
79 CX500D (40,000+ mi in 3 years)
76 CB550 (step up from 200cc)
74 KZ200 (1st bike!)
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03-11-2010, 5:45 AM
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JWC
Joined on 07-08-2009
Urbana, Illinois
Posts 83
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Thank you all for your input and great questions.
- I dropped the engine in order to replace a bad rear cover gasket.
- I cleaned the plugs and checked the gap before starting, they were right on gap. I primed both cylinders before starting which helps get things moving.
- I also installed a new screen tube (filter) in the tank. One question about that: Does the broad rubber merely fit in the screen tube to keep it from collapsing?
- I always run a clear inline filter; it looks good. I can check the petcock, however it was running very well for 4 miles. I had done some tank work, repaired a few pin holes and repainted. The tank was empty and dry for several weeks. Unless I got some really bad gas on fill up, I think I can eliminate water in the tank. Note: I didn't use the old gas again, I went to the station and got some fresh before starting.
- When the bike quit and I tried to restart; the "extreme compression" and consequential backfire seemed similar to what you would get when dosing with too much ether.
- The knocking around the starter was more than likely the starter trying to crank that which wouldn't crank.
When I got the bike home to try to restart, although it didn't restart, it turned over well. There were no unusual noises, it just wouldn't fire.
One nagging question in the back of my mind concerns the rotor. I had it in the correct position, or it wouldn't have started and run. I marked it and felt it lock in to the groove. There isn't any way it could have "popped out" after assembly is there? I wouldn't think so.
Thanks again. - Jon
1982 Sliverwing GL500i
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03-11-2010, 8:07 AM
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Blindstitch
Joined on 03-14-2009
Greenfield Wisconsin
Posts 9,863
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Did you just install a new screen tube or was that a while back? If it was a while back remove it again and check for rust.
1979 CX500 Supertanker
ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier.
Quick Reference
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03-11-2010, 8:12 AM
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Blue fox
Joined on 04-18-2008
COLUMBIA, MISSOURI
Posts 1,533
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Just some guesses here. I would take the plugs back out and clean them with carb cleaner. I sounds like somehow the cylinder(s) got flooded and caused a hydraulic lock. The gas may have wetted the plugs enough to cause them not to fire.
I don't think your pulsar shaft is 180 degrees out. The bike wouldn't have run the 4 miles if it was. Did you put the pin in the narrow slot? I believe that is where it goes.
Another possibility is that your petcock screen has become matted with rust from your tank repair and is not allowing fuel to come thru. You can pull the fuel line off the petcock and see if fuel runs freely when you turn the petcock on, both regular and reserve.
See if any of these help.
Blue Fox
1983 GL650I, 79-CX500C, 1980 CX500C, 82-GL500I, 82-GL1100, 76-CB550, 81-CB750C, 73-CB350F, 71-CT90,
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03-11-2010, 8:19 AM
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JWC
Joined on 07-08-2009
Urbana, Illinois
Posts 83
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Installed a new screen tube just before taking it out on a spin.
1982 Sliverwing GL500i
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03-11-2010, 8:24 AM
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JWC
Joined on 07-08-2009
Urbana, Illinois
Posts 83
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I'll clean those plugs again and see if the petcock is allowing fuel flow. Since this is vacuum operated, I won't get fuel flow by disconnecting the fuel line. I could disconnect and crank to see if I'm getting flow. I'll give it a whirl.
1982 Sliverwing GL500i
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03-11-2010, 8:53 AM
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spanish bandit
Joined on 02-12-2009
southern spain
Posts 5,010
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 JWC wrote: | I'll clean those plugs again and see if the petcock is allowing fuel flow. Since this is vacuum operated, I won't get fuel flow by disconnecting the fuel line. I could disconnect and crank to see if I'm getting flow. I'll give it a whirl.
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if you suspect your petcock,just disable it,you can always revert at a later date
http://globalcxglvtwins.hostingdelivered.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=290
when i feel the need,i do it,llego,ve 60,s
-----------------------------
2008.1982 honda gli silverwing [uk model ]
2010.1981 honda gli silverwing [uk model ]
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03-11-2010, 2:22 PM
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Spacetiger
Joined on 05-16-2009
Chantilly, VA
Posts 1,355
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"One nagging question in the back of my mind concerns the rotor. I had
it in the correct position, or it wouldn't have started and run. I
marked it and felt it lock in to the groove. There isn't any way it
could have "popped out" after assembly is there? I wouldn't think so."
What rotor are you refering too? I did not see in your list of things you did that matches to the reference to this rotor.
If I had to guess, I'd say its not a fuel problem but a mechanical problem somewhere affecting your ignition. If the rotor you mention is the timing advance unit (?), then my first thought is of the rotor coming off or getting loose with the bolt coming off (because the bolt was not on tight). This would stop the ignition and kill the motor if the bolt backed out allowing the rotor to come out of the slot and mess up the timing. Then, it might account for the noise near the starter and the extreme compression (bolt and/or roitor was wedged in somehow so the starter could not turn the motor). Whne you got the bike home, you moved things around enough to allow the starter to spin the motor but the rotor is not on (correctly) so there is no spark to fire...
My 2 cents
Jerry
90 PC 800 (commuting steed)
82 GL500I (50+mpg, great bike)
66 BMW R 50/2 (No brakes/HP)
80 CX500C (Loved this bike)
74 CB360 (Fun; but too small)
79 CX500D (40,000+ mi in 3 years)
76 CB550 (step up from 200cc)
74 KZ200 (1st bike!)
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03-11-2010, 5:35 PM
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JWC
Joined on 07-08-2009
Urbana, Illinois
Posts 83
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If the rotor you mention is the timing advance unit (?)
Yes Jerry, it looks too much like the old rotors from the old distributor cap and rotor days.
My friend I guarantee you have nailed it. I'm going to tear down tomorrow but I know you have hit the ball out of the park with your diagnosis.
I have fuel flow. Only spark I see is initial button push spark, nothing after that. When you have one of those sneaking suspicions, and then confirmation, that has to be it. I'll see if the bolt did any damage on the way down. Hope not.
Thank you so much. If you ever make it to Champaign-Urbana, IL, I'll buy you a steak.
I'll let you know how it goes.
Jon
1982 Sliverwing GL500i
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03-11-2010, 7:10 PM
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Randall-in-Mpls
Joined on 07-06-2007
Minneapolis, MN
Posts 2,630
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You may be able to access the timing cover without dropping the engine. Removing the carbs might give you enough room to reach it.
R
'78 CX500 - Black Maggot --> Green Grub / Yellow Grub / Red Grub ???
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03-11-2010, 7:59 PM
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JWC
Joined on 07-08-2009
Urbana, Illinois
Posts 83
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Thanks Randall, I'll take a look at that before tearing down. It looks awfully close to the coolant reservoir. I may be able to drop that. Thanks again. - Jon
1982 Sliverwing GL500i
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03-11-2010, 8:57 PM
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Blindstitch
Joined on 03-14-2009
Greenfield Wisconsin
Posts 9,863
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I think I overheard in an other post that it's easier to loosen the front frame bolts after taking the carbs off and slowly lower the engine an inch or two with a jack giving a better angle to get at the rear section.
1979 CX500 Supertanker
ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier.
Quick Reference
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03-13-2010, 10:24 AM
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JWC
Joined on 07-08-2009
Urbana, Illinois
Posts 83
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Jerry, it was just as you suspected. I had obviously forgotten to tighten the bolt on the advance unit before assembly. The fastening bolt is too long to come out and down into the engine, however it came out enough for the advance unit to jump out of the key way and quit working.
I believe the engine noise was the starter not being fully engaged when trying to crank over.
At any rate, thanks for your contribution on this.
- Jon
1982 Sliverwing GL500i
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Honda CX500 & G... » CX500 GL500 Tra... » General Discuss... » Diagnose This
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