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03-08-2010, 9:23 AM AmericancClassic Joined on 08-25-2009 Naples, FL Posts 297 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Uploading them to photobucket first is what I do. The uploads will probably be faster aswell, since its likely a better designed uploader. 1981 Honda gl500    Report

03-08-2010, 11:20 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: reargearx.jpg A significant step tonight....the rear bearing carrier is located, for the rear drive gear-belt shaft.  This 1/4" plate will get braces to the motor plate, and the sides of the cases.  It is currently mounted on 8mm studs to set the bearing depth.  The gear is shown hanging loose, but fits correctly to the crankshaft when squared up (the shaft will be 1 3/8" stock with a sealed outer bearing on an external carrier). The inner bearing oils from the forward cylinder oil return passage (from the rocker box).  I cut the shelf back and positioned the bearing so oil will drip directly into the back of the bearing race, as it runs down the return passage.  We are making drive flanges with square cogs to connect to these clutch basket gears. Hopefully this pic works....I made two into one. JimL    Report

03-13-2010, 8:58 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: drivegearx.jpg More changes....after setting up the inner bearing for the rear connection gear, I found that shaft loads were going to be cantilevered too far.  That would have turned the belt drive into a bigger problem than I have time or money to deal with.  So.....it's back to the original plan of straight cut gears. I did some reading, and found that other LSR bikes have used this method in the past, and it works well enough for the relatively short mileage these bikes actually run. I went ahead and built a strongback for the lower run of the motor plate (bottom pic, below), cut the cases, cut the plate, and roughed in the location for the center gear.  This will put all the gears in-line, eliminate outside drives and seals, and solve the problem of how I was going to drive from the pulleys (through shafts) into the center of the clutch basket gear (they are powdered metal web, and can't be welded onto). Now all I need is one more empty 500 clutch basket (the two baskets I'm using in the pics are needed for my other bike and the clutch for this one).  I'll put a note in the buy-sell area....and if anyone has an empty clutch basket for a 500, let me know how much you want for it. Also...a note about the 650 pistons under construction.  The only available ring-pack is 83mm (which is about .020" over).  That ring set is used for the CRF450R, and has rings narrow enough for the short distance between the wrist pin and the upper land.  I should still be safely within the 1350cc class, because .020" of overbore is allowed to be subtracted from the inspection measurement, to allow for reconditioning of old engines. thanks, JimL      Report

03-14-2010, 4:28 AM PWG in Lowgap NC Joined on 01-07-2008 Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway Posts 2,379 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Jim, I have a clutch basket to donate to your cause. Email me a shipping address windjammer73 AT gmail dot com Phil 06 Suzuki S50 daily ride CX500c Honda Magna BC age 72    Report

03-14-2010, 10:04 AM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Thank you....I've sent an email using the button on your post. Looking forward to hearing from you, so I can send you some shipping money. JimL    Report

03-14-2010, 3:27 PM PWG in Lowgap NC Joined on 01-07-2008 Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway Posts 2,379 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Got it. I'll send today. 06 Suzuki S50 daily ride CX500c Honda Magna BC age 72    Report

03-15-2010, 10:36 AM PWG in Lowgap NC Joined on 01-07-2008 Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway Posts 2,379 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Jim. Item was shipped today UPS ground. Gotta keep blindstitch working you know. 06 Suzuki S50 daily ride CX500c Honda Magna BC age 72    Report

03-15-2010, 4:47 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Thankyou....heading for the shop to cut some more metal.  Good thing to do to get my stress levels lowered!    Report

03-20-2010, 8:44 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: DSC07511x.jpg Another good shop day.  The gear train is together and working.  I used two 35mm, double-row, ball bearings in the center of each gear.  I cut a small groove inside the center of the gear, and sandwiched a piece of welding wire into the groove, between the two bearings outer races.  With the sides of the inner races shimmed between the shaft mount plates, the gears cannot move sideways.  The gear train is now carried ENTIRELY by the motor plate.  Each engine can be unbolted and removed without any gear train disassembly.  This gear trains spins very smooth and easy....I'm happy tonight! I have one more clutch basket on the way from a helpful forum member (the one shown on the front engine can't be cut up...it's the good one for last years single engine bike). In the photo below you can see the rear gear shaft (15mm shaft stock purchased at industrial supply) sticking out.  I'll cut that off and make a small retainer to keep the shaft from moving.  The forward gear shaft is correct length (can be see just behind the front engine area).  I'll show some more pics on following posts. Regards, JimL    Report

03-20-2010, 8:50 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: DSC07512x.jpg Here's a shot of the rear gear "inside" carrier.  This pockets back into the front chamber of the case, where I cut away some internal rib for clearance.  The outer plate is mounted on spacers, in several places, and serves as additional stiffening for the engine package.  ALL bolts are shoulder all the way through, for precise location.  My method is too lay out all the plates in proper position, tack weld the edges together at 4 points, drill all the holes, then cut loose the welds.  The result is perfect alignment of all the bolts.  That rear shaft looks angled, in this pic....it's an optical illusion....the shafts are dead straight. More below....    Report

03-20-2010, 8:53 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: DSC07514x.jpg This is a look at the rear shaft carrier of the forward coupling gear.  This plate is 3/8" cold rolled steel....good stuff.  I still have to make a good spacer for this, and prepare the closure plates (sheet metal) for this area.  The otherside (clutch basket side) will be covered with a single large piece, enclosing everything and carring the clutch release cover. JimL    Report

03-21-2010, 3:53 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: DSC07522x.jpg Here's a view of the gears, from the rear, with a shaft retainer (bolt on tab in a slot on the shaft).  I used the same method for the rear shaft, but on the other side of the plates.  You can see the inner carrier plate, that lives inside the forward cavity of the rear engine block. Spent a lot of time hand shaping the cases, preparing for the closure plates.  This will be a slow job for a while. JimL    Report

03-21-2010, 3:58 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: DSC07521x.jpg Here's the retainer for the other side, with an additional shaft block to stabilize the shaft (I had to hand work the oouter plate hole about .020", and this now positions the shaft with no movement).  This shaft is now finished, and all of this is inside the blane of the planned outer cover. JimL    Report

03-22-2010, 10:15 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: DSC07524x.jpg OK....got the clutch basket from PWG today (pic below).  I clamped an old 650 shaft in a vice, clamped a piece of 1/4" pine up against it as a drag, and cut the basket off with my handheld air "cut-off" tool (commonly known as a "death wheel").  I let the basket spin as the wheel was cutting through the aluminum..... which made a pretty impressive pile of aluminum filings and sawdust, on my shoes!  It was a little spooky when the basket would spin up too fast.  I also pulled the crank out of the rear block, finished hand filing the case openings, and reorganized my work area......pistons will be ready soon and blocks need to go out for boring. Thanks for the interest, folks. JimL    Report

03-25-2010, 3:12 PM PWG in Lowgap NC Joined on 01-07-2008 Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway Posts 2,379 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Jim, I got the postage reembursement today. Thanks 06 Suzuki S50 daily ride CX500c Honda Magna BC age 72    Report

03-27-2010, 4:55 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: DSC07560x.jpg Here's a pic of the primary drive cover coming together.  The clutch cover, with release arm, will mount about as shown.  There will be access for the crankshaft bolts, and a removable plate over the oil pump, to allow pre-pumping without starting the engine.      Report

03-27-2010, 4:56 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: DSC07564x.jpg A look inside the cover...I had to do a little trimming to get the clutch in place.    Report

03-28-2010, 6:45 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: DSC07566x.jpg Another difficult problem solved today....making the hole for the clutch, and perfect aligning the clutch release/cover.  It bolts on at an odd angle, because I had to get past my homemade primary case (with a little extension). I also made a removeable cover plate for the front oil pump.  This will provide access to "pre-pump" the engines.  I'll make a special tool that will hook onto a fitting on the oil pump sprocket...I'll disconnect the chain, and then run the oil pump with an air ratchet, before starting the engines.  The oil pressure line (from the pump) will be flexible, allowing moving the oil pump far enough to slip off the chain.  The oil filter will be external, on a vertical remote mount, so that the filter does not drain down when the engines aren't running. Tomorrow night....finish the gear "under sump", then get started on the sheet metal oil sump/tank, that will live under the engines. Thanks for following along    Report

03-29-2010, 8:59 AM RichNCT Joined on 03-02-2006 Connecticut, USA Posts 3,463 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Jim sez "Thanks for following along" No, THANK YOU!  If school had been this interesting, I might have stayed longer . . . Refueling on The James Bay Road, 2009 Born to be relatively wild (for a grampa x 3) GL650I, CX650E, CX650T    Report

04-01-2010, 7:22 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: DSC07578x.jpg Thanks, fellas....show and tell tonight with several interesting pics.  First is the new 13:1 ratio, .020" overbore GL650 pistons.  CP made up 4 of them for this bike.  They have everything in their computer, and can make a little less compression if you need.  These pistons use the same rings as the 83mm kit for Honda CRF450F; good stuff.  They work with the stock head gasket, come with new (shorter) wrist pins and weigh only 10.4 oz (stock is 11.1 oz), and are ok with stock cams, or the WebCam.  About $350 a pair. Both my blocks go for boring tomorrow.    Report

04-01-2010, 7:27 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: DSC07580x.jpg Here is the final valve spring arrangement for the 650 heads.  These are ultralight springs (inner and outer) using about 20 lbs more base pressure, than stock) and room to add more valve lift without coil bind.  They are spaced up from the head, to reduce heat transfer at very high engine loads.  These valves are oversize Kibblewhite parts, with standard guide size.  My 500 heads will use 5.5 mm valve stems and guides (THIN!!) looking for more RPM.  I'll post pics when they're ready.    Report

04-01-2010, 7:30 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: DSC07583x.jpg Here's a shot down the intake port, showing the reduced valve guide length (with shaping), and the increased volume in the port.  Note the new (oversize) bronze valve seats, needed to accomodate the larger valves.  There is about 1mm of material left between the edge of the seats and the spark plug threads....this is as far as you go. Yes....got a little cleaning to do....many things to do, in fact.    Report

04-01-2010, 7:37 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: DSC07576x.jpg Last years bike used an external carrier for the outboard bearing of my chain drive conversion.  This year I'm making the sprocket shaft a little longer, boring the outside bearing hole to 52mm (the original shaft drive front bearing position), and carrying the outside end of the sprocket shaft in a 52mm x 25mm bearing.  I'll have steel sleeves over the shaft, to provide a seal surface on each side of the sprocket, and a sheet metal "pocket case" set into the back of the rear (my left) engine cover, with room for the countershaft sprocket. Here's a comparison of the 500 shaft (short) and the 1350 shaft.  The 500 runs again this year, retaining last years drive coupling parts. Regards, JimL    Report

04-01-2010, 11:42 PM Panther Joined on 05-09-2006 Las Vegas, NV Posts 1,264 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Any idea How low they can do the compression on those pistons? Peace & Light >^..^< .......... '83 GL650swi "My Little Grey Lady" '82 GL500swi parts bike '78 DT175 '86 LS650 Milady's bike    Report

04-02-2010, 12:51 AM PWG in Lowgap NC Joined on 01-07-2008 Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway Posts 2,379 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project All I can say is, wow. We are truly blessed to be a part of this project. 06 Suzuki S50 daily ride CX500c Honda Magna BC age 72    Report

04-03-2010, 8:11 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: DSC07584x.jpg First, to answer the question about the pistons....they can do anything you want, even dished for the turbo engines, but they'll need some additional wrist pin and rod small end width info for the turbo versions (I think they're different?). I've got the rear seat/tailpiece tubes welded into the frame, and began fitting up streamlining.  The front fender will have to wait for final fit after the engines are in, batteries, all the heavy stuff.  If you look closely, you'll see a radiator iin the cutout, behind the rear axle area.  I'll try to mount one radiator on each side, flush, with SPAL low profile cooling fans, blowing outward. This will require full enclosure of the rear wheel, inside the tail piece, and some additional fiberglass added below and behind the radiators.  There is a high pressure area ahead of the rear tire, below the belly pan, that will be fairly "clean" source of air for the radiator fans. I'm also looking at mounting the front fender to the upper fork tubes, keeping the fender in exact height to the fairing.  I can have 1-1.5" wheel travel inside the fender, and stay within the class rule that requires maximum 1.75" from outside of tire to outside of fender.  If I can do this, the gap above the fender, to the fairing nose, can be almost completely closed.  Combined with solid closure behind the front wheel, and full length under the fairing, the aerodynamics should be improved. Regards, JimL    Report

04-03-2010, 8:14 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: DSC07586x.jpg Here's a look from the front, showing the gap I'd like to close.....and yes....if I start exercising and stretching, I think I can get myself lower!    Report

04-04-2010, 1:48 PM Berner Joined on 02-22-2010 New Hampshire Posts 6 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Stunning build! 82 GL500 'Problem with life is there's no background music'    Report

04-07-2010, 9:28 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: DSC07601x.jpg Again, thanks for the support....these projects have many "doubt days" in them, but the friendly support keeps us moving ahead....even with the likelihood of eventual failure.  ALL salt flats projects are an experiment; it's probably good it's only once a year! Today received a pair of clutch packs from Barnett.  These eliminate the cushion plate mechanism, and fit an extra friction disc (and steel) to increase hold area of the clutch.  They also include a set of STOUT springs.  One pack for the twin engine bike, and one for the single engine bike. Blocks should be out of machine shop in a few more days....it's time to get the pistons on the rods, get the engines back together, and prepare for official measurement and sealing (saves work and time at the actual event).  Meanwhile, I've been working with Randy Nelson (current multiple record holder with a CX500T engine in a chain drive chassis).  He's trying to sort out a MicroSquirt EFI system.  Today we finally got it sparking on both cylinders, at the correct time; he had to convert the flywheel triggers to an "18-1 tooth" configuration. A lot of potential in his bike, once the EFI is sorted out (the stock Honda stuff has too many "safeguards" built in, and is not suitable for land speed racing).  He is considering converting his chain drive to a system like I'm building for my twin-engine bike.  He currently runs a jackshaft drive arrangement, but that's a bit of a hassle and sucks some power out of the system.    Report

04-07-2010, 11:35 PM Panther Joined on 05-09-2006 Las Vegas, NV Posts 1,264 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project I would be very interested in knowing more about Randy's "18-1" trigger. I too want to run a microsquirt on my GL650. Any pictures? Peace & Light >^..^< .......... '83 GL650swi "My Little Grey Lady" '82 GL500swi parts bike '78 DT175 '86 LS650 Milady's bike    Report

04-10-2010, 8:53 PM Silverado 6x6 Joined on 08-13-2009 Wasilla, Alaska Posts 440 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Pretty darn good old man!  You must have watched Burt Munro's movie "The Worlds Fastest Indian" many times. Please keep us posted, I would offer comments but you are so far above my league I would be making a fool of myself even with what I may think is a good question. Well I'll give it a shot anyway, you gonna mock up the bike in a wind tunnel? 1980 CX 500 Deluxe with Vetter Vindicator Electric Fan conversion LED lamp conversion Bridgestone Spitfires New Ricks Motorsports stator H4 HID headlamp 2009 Yamaha V-Star 1300 Tourer New stuff being added every day.    Report

04-10-2010, 10:15 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: DSC01061x.jpg Couple of answers, and more work today. 1.  The MicroSquirt for uneven fire is still in the "sorting" stage.  Randy had to add metal blocks on the outside of the flywheel, in order to get 17 signals per revolution (18-1...the minus one gap is positioned a couple teeth before TDC on #1, in order for the computer to know when to fire).  This is pretty big disassemble and machine stuff.  On our non-turbo GLs, theoretically the spark signals should run the computer....but we couldn't get it to work that way using the cam signals from the turbo 500.  We think the best way would be to machine a 32 minus 1, or 36 minus 1, crank wheel to run off the spark advancer.  This would require fabricating a new outer ignition case, but would give a good stable signal for the waste spark/double inject operation.  All that said, I don't see any performance increase for a non-turbo model, with EFI.  Power comes from compression, porting, big valves, cam, and much higher RPM. 2.  I won't be using a wind tunnel....that's much too expensive to consider.  I did enjoy "Worlds Fastest Indian".  Actually, I did get to visit with Bert in 1969, when I first ran Bonneville.  He gave me the "nickel tour" of his bike, explaining how he'd made everything work.  I never knew of his off-track exploits, until I read the book.  I remember it was about Tuesday, or so, when he missed a shift and threw the windings in his magneto.  Some fellows went with him to salvage coated wire from a wrecked airplane magneto, and he rewound it by hand, during the night.  Here's a pic I took, that year,  with my little 8mm Yashica Autoron (tiny little slide film camera that I carried throught two tours in Nam). JimL    Report

04-10-2010, 10:23 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: DSC07608x.jpg Todays work was finishing the flanges and seal areas of the primary drive cover, and mounting the radiators.  I still have a lot of trimming to do, on the fiberglass, plust making the lower enclosure under/behind the radiator.  There will be internal fans (SPAL) on each side, right behind my legs, blowing into ducts that feed air to the radiators....I'll fabricate those myself by making one-shot molds for my fiberglas work.  The air inlets will be right behind my calf, on each side, in the pocket area of the tail piece.  I've decided it's too risky to pull the air under the bike....if we get wet salt it'll spray under the full length of the belly pan (experience). Both radiators will get the top outlet moved to the top plate of the upper tank (keeping the hoses out of the rear tire during suspension movement).  I may have to do that myself....the radiator shops don't like to do anything "custom" these days.  Below is a pic of the radiator position....I still have to trim out the opening in the fiberglas. JimL    Report

04-10-2010, 10:25 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: DSC07612x.jpg Here's a pic of the radiator support arrangement (still have to make one more upper tab, for each radiator, but I have to determine ducting position first. Thanks for following along. JimL    Report

04-10-2010, 10:28 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: DSC07613x.jpg Pic of the rear view.  I'll be able to get 5" wide rear tire between the ducts and radiators.    Report

04-10-2010, 10:31 PM Clumzi Joined on 01-26-2009 Olympia Washington Posts 636 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Taking pictures of Bert Monroe in 1969 at Bonneville with the camera you carried with you through two tours in Nam. I'd give pieces of my anatomy I'm very fond of to sit down with you and a six pack for a LONG time. -nick 1979 CX Rat Sport (EMGO pods, wrapped MAC 2in1, 90/130 re-jet, 18" rear wheel, 50 cal ammo cans, Viper cafe faring, $.97 rattle can flat black) 1987 Toyota Van (Whitey) 2002 Subaru Legacy GT (Spiffy) Motorcycles should be black and dirty :)    Report

04-11-2010, 12:15 AM Silverado 6x6 Joined on 08-13-2009 Wasilla, Alaska Posts 440 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Is there any way to make that tubing in the rear serve double duty? Make it also the delivery lines to the radiators? To be honest I would prefer to use some new heater cores out of a truck or bus, or better yet something aircraft rated and lightweight. And have a separate recovery tank. Being a machinist and a fabricator and a bit of a McGuyver I would honestly look for something light, possibly scratch built or something all stainless. You ever seen some small car AC condensers? Nice and thin, light, compression fittings, might need a coolant booster pump....just some loose thoughts. One on each side like you have those radiators. 1980 CX 500 Deluxe with Vetter Vindicator Electric Fan conversion LED lamp conversion Bridgestone Spitfires New Ricks Motorsports stator H4 HID headlamp 2009 Yamaha V-Star 1300 Tourer New stuff being added every day.    Report

04-11-2010, 8:05 PM TonyG Joined on 04-05-2006 Central Pa Posts 745 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project What is your rough guestimate of the Projected HP rating. Is 220 for the pair a possibility? Will it be running alcohol?    Report

04-11-2010, 9:33 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: DSC07616x.jpg Well folks....sometimes a bad idea goes REALLY bad.  I was crankin' along, welding up tubes, bending pipe, hanging radiators....figuring I could fiberglas up some cool ducts to get air from the fans to the cores. Then I noticed I couldn't adjust the rear wheel all the way back and still have any suspension. OOOOPS!!   thank goodness for hand-held air powered hacksaws, and good bi-metal blades....I chopped off my goof and started over this afternoon. Photos below shows the radiators moved into the sides of the tailpiece (where I've got aobut 7" of depth).  I'll be able to put the fans right onto the radiators without a bunch of extra work. I'm also going to be able to close up the bottom of the tailpiece, reduce the holes in the sides of the tailpiece (for hot air relase), and keep the weight a little farther forward (remembering the "issues" the KZ1000 had in CHP service, which led to the articulated tail box with shock absorber damping).    Report

04-11-2010, 9:44 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: DSC07617x.jpg Here's a side view of the new radiator position.  I now have about 3"-4" for fan clearance, and the weight isn't hanging behind the rear wheel.  Much simpler, this way. Regarding horsepower; I don't really know.  I should be close to the CX500 flat-tracker that Honda built for Freddie Spencer.  It made 90 HP at the rear wheel, with tuning for a fairly wide powerband, but had 75 more cc than each of my engines.  One of the unfortunate problems of dual engines, is that "2+2 does not equal 4".  There's a little loss in the gears, and a little loss in the rotational speed delta on the compression strokes.  I'm doing my best to mitigate that, with the super light flywheels, but we'll not know until I can do a full pass on the salt. This is certainly no Hayabusa, and the pumped ones, on gasoline, are in the 200-220 range (normally aspirated) and are running in the 200-210 mph range on the salt. I suspect I need 160-180 HP to get the record away from the Harley that set it (which I'm told was using Nitrous before it was illegal for gasoline class back about 30 years ago....don't know if that's true).  I did not build the engines with enough compression to take advantage of methanol (I'd want 14.5:1).  Modern race gasolines have higher specific output than methanol, and  gasoline enignes have too much cooling in the bottom of the cylinders to use it. Regards, JimL    Report

04-12-2010, 4:50 AM RichNCT Joined on 03-02-2006 Connecticut, USA Posts 3,463 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project "and a little loss in the rotational speed delta on the compression strokes." Jim, a question, not a suggestion.  Will you be "synchronizing" the two engines to get a specific relationship between the firing timing on the engines, that is, to smooth out  then power impulses? Refueling on The James Bay Road, 2009 Born to be relatively wild (for a grampa x 3) GL650I, CX650E, CX650T    Report

04-12-2010, 11:17 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: DSC07618x.jpg Yes, the cranks will be synched to get even firing, as much as possible.  Because the gears are the same tooth count, it'll stay in time....but gear life will be limited. Thanks for the continued interest, fellas.....tonight I made a hole in the engine, which led to the chain getting hooked on.  I also started making the closure box that fits into the engine, for the sprocket.  The pics tell the story, showing the sprocket / flywheel relationship, and then the opening angles for the sprocket.  Note that my countershaft extension is stuck in from the outside, to hold the sprocket while marking out the closure box. JimL    Report

04-12-2010, 11:20 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: DSC07620x.jpg Here's a pic of the chain on the bike, and the first two pieces of the internal box, that will have the countershaft running through it.  There will be tubing on each side of the sprocket to make a place for seals to run, and to keep the sprocket in position.  The closure box parts are at the bottom of the pic. Regards, JimL    Report

05-03-2010, 11:11 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: DSC07640x.jpg Engines are together, except the oil pump system and installing the heads (have to get them measured and "sealed" when I do that).  Here's a pic of the reinforced clutch with Barnett plates and springs.  This uses thinner plates and disks, which allows for more friction area (very tight pack in this unit, and spring pressure is more than doubled).  The ring is T6061 aluminum, machined at the proper slope to fit the basket ears (this keeps the ears from blowing outward and snapping off). JimL    Report

05-03-2010, 11:20 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: DSC07644x.jpg This looks a little rough, but it fits well and seals well (uses Toyota FIPG....great stuff).  The shaft has about .020" end play between the outer bearing stop and the drive coupler.  There is .003" clearance between the steel housing and the cut down flywheel.  The "shaft sleeves' fit over the splined drive shaft, seal at the ends, and run in 1.25" transmission input shaft seals (OK for 5-6000 RPM shaft speed). Good enough for government work! The forward engine is in the bike, carbs have arrived (settled on 38mm Mikuni flat-slides), radiators are rebuilt, SPAL fans are ordered, starting on the oil sump and oil lines later this week.  Huge project....meanwhile, the pistons and heads are ready for the two 500cc bikes I'm working on.  I'll post a few pics when those get closer. Regards, JimL    Report

05-04-2010, 5:27 AM TonyG Joined on 04-05-2006 Central Pa Posts 745 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Jim, a post and question a little off topic, but related. With the cam chain issues that the CX series is known to have would there be a way to mount a plate to the back of a Cx650 and gear drive the cam. I expect that it wouild take 2 gears, and it would possibly take more HP draw to turn the gears than the chain. Any opinion on that idea?    Report

05-04-2010, 8:35 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Yes, a gear drive could be done.  The crank would be easy to machine off the sprocket, then sweat on a gear.  The cam gear could probably be used from some relatively standard part (as long as it's double the crank gear teeth).  The idler gears could be any size that have prime number of teeth (similar to "noisy" drives for Chevy small block timing gears). Truthfully, I'm not finding anything very bad with the later type timing chain and tensioners.  One of them that I took apart had 80,000 miles, and the chain is the same length as a 20000 mile engine that I'm using.  JimL    Report

05-08-2010, 10:01 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: DSC07646x.jpg So.....just how does one hook 4 carbs, spread the length of the motorcycle, to one throttle? Simple.   First, you start with a Yamaha TZ750 throttle (for those who/ve never heard of it, that was the 4-cylinder 2-stroke road-racer built in the mid 70s).  There were about 266 (or 500 by some accounts) built. Then, simply make up 4 different length throttle cables. This will be interesting.  As you can see, that's the way the TZ750 throttle was made....out of magnesium, by the way. Stranger and stranger..      Report

05-09-2010, 11:33 AM Silverado 6x6 Joined on 08-13-2009 Wasilla, Alaska Posts 440 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Thats pretty interesting Jim, will you still have some equalization thats as precise as possible this way? 1980 CX 500 Deluxe with Vetter Vindicator Electric Fan conversion LED lamp conversion Bridgestone Spitfires New Ricks Motorsports stator H4 HID headlamp 2009 Yamaha V-Star 1300 Tourer New stuff being added every day.    Report

05-09-2010, 8:35 PM JimL1581 Joined on 04-19-2009 Posts 176 Re: Another Salt Flats Silver Wing project Attachment: DSC07647x.jpg Yes....the cables will have individual adjustors, just like the original TZ750. Couple of posts for this weekends work.  The primary drive enclosure is sorted out, except for two more access holes for the "oil pump out" and the rear countershaft "in".  I've made the blocks that fit to the original pump and trans plate, just a few more holes to drill.  The engines are together, but heads not torqued (will be removed for measuring, then torqued, then "sealed" with safety wire through some bolts I've drilled). The oil line routing is figured out, still have to mount the remote filter, and put together the 3-point junction for oil distribution.  As you can see, I've gone mostly external. More below. JimL    Report

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