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Off-Topic Posts
Started by Diesel08 at 06-28-2010 1:54 AM. Topic has 18 replies.
  
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 06-28-2010, 1:54 AM
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Diesel08
 
Joined on 10-17-2009
Columbus, OH
Posts 244
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Familiar with auto wrenching?
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My friend has an '03 Mercury Sable with a 3.0 V6 and only 12k miles that is not working right. I tried to convince him that it's just a Ford and not meant to run  but he didn't buy that solution so I thought I'd ask here to see if you guys have another solution. He went out one night and when he went to leave the car wouldn't start. We've tested the alternator, replaced the starter, checked the battery voltage. All of these things were fine.
When we turn the key on the car has limited power to things like the dome light and what not but will gain more power if you wait a minute. When its up to full power we tried to start it but when turning the key any further to try to start it it kills all power in the car. We tried jumping the car off of my 4.0 Jeep but still wouldn't do anything and at times even with the jumpers hooked up the car didn't have much power to it because the dome light was dim. We checked both the engine ground and body ground and both of those looked good. We checked all of the fuses in the fuse box and they all look to be good as well. Also, when we can get the car to make any sound at all its the starter kind of clicking like it has a dead battery. We haven't got the car to try to turn over at all.
Thought by chance someone here might have some more experience than me or him at this and might be able to figure this out. Thanks!
1980 CX500 Custom
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06-28-2010, 5:21 AM
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rickbert
Joined on 01-05-2009
Missouri....60 mis East of KC
Posts 1,384
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Re: Familiar with auto wrenching?
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I am no mechanic at all...especially when it comes to electrical issues. But even though the voltage on the battery checked out I'd maybe try a new one...if it doesn't help you can always return it for your money back at Napa (I've done this before when it WAS a starter issue, thinking it was my battery).
Maybe try jumping it with the cables unhooked from HIS car's battery...in other words just to the cables and see IF it makes a difference.
If you have a new starter in there and it still won't do anything when jumping it to another vehicle then that tells you the issue has to be BEFORE the power gets to the starter, I would think.
It has to be something simple like that.
1982 CX500C...22K miles...owned since 10/08
My age: 45
Bike's name: "Long Cool Woman in a Black Dress"
If you need to contact me personally send an email, I never get my pm's for some reason.
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06-28-2010, 6:22 AM
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Blue fox
Joined on 04-18-2008
COLUMBIA, MISSOURI
Posts 1,533
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Re: Familiar with auto wrenching?
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I'm not a auto mechanic either, but it seems like you have a connection issue. Could very well be in the battery cable where it hooks to the battery. Corrosion may have gotten in the connector and is not allowing full current to pass. Remember, these starting motors draw up to 150 amps when cranking. That needs a solid, good connection. A partial connection may be enough to run the dome lights, etc, but isn't good enough for the starting motor.
Try jumping using a engine frame member as the ground post. This will take the negative lead out of the loop. If it now cranks, replace the negative cable. The positive is a little tougher. Peel back the boot and see if you can see green corrosion at the junction of the cable and post. If so, and it looks nasty, they do make a clamp-on terminal to replace the original post. These are usually good enough to allow you to get stranded later on. But may work for testing purposes. If you are trying this, use a battery cleaner to clean the end of the cable and a wire brush on the inner cable to make sure everything is clean and bright. New positive cables are available from Wal Mart even for less than $10.
The other possible area is the solenoid contacts themselves. I don't know what type Ford uses, but I know my Plymouth van has a solenoid mounted to the top of the starter. And I have had to replace the internal contacts in it. Your new starter may have come with a new solenoid, so that may not be the case here.
Blue Fox
1983 GL650I, 79-CX500C, 1980 CX500C, 82-GL500I, 82-GL1100, 76-CB550, 81-CB750C, 73-CB350F, 71-CT90,
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06-28-2010, 7:37 PM
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Pop
Joined on 10-03-2008
Conshohocken, Pa
Posts 241
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Re: Familiar with auto wrenching?
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I'm a former mechanic and here is what I think your problem could be. First make sure all you connections are good. Pull on the cables to make sure they are not loose and clean all the connections with sand paper or a wire brush. You could have a battery with a cell shorted to ground. Swap batteries and try it. Check for burnt wires or the smell of something burning. Hook the jumper cables directly to the starter and the engine block and see what that does. You could still have a bad starter, defective new is not that unusual in starters or alternators. Let us know what happens
I live by one rule: If it ain't broke don't fix it!
And if you can't fix it leave it the hell alone!
"I am what I am and that's all that I am" Popeye
82 CX500C (Sold)
82 Yamaha XV920 Virago (Wrecked)
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06-28-2010, 8:11 PM
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Blindstitch
Joined on 03-14-2009
Greenfield Wisconsin
Posts 9,863
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Re: Familiar with auto wrenching?
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Starter solenoid.
I didn't here you say anything about the starter turning. There are two. One that is connected to the battery and another one down the line on the starter.
The first one has basic power wires on the power side of the battery but the starting and everything is on the other side. The key triggers the solenoid to pass power through and does the same to some starters. It's all the same as your motorcycle.
1979 CX500 Supertanker
ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier.
Quick Reference
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06-28-2010, 8:27 PM
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CXSarnia
Joined on 01-11-2008
Sarnia, Ontario, Canada
Posts 2,623
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![Hmm [^o)]](http://choppercharles.com/cs/emoticons/emotion-40.gif)
Re: Familiar with auto wrenching?
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Never thought I'd be able to help with this, but....
I had a V6 Merc Sable back in the day - I think mine was an '87. Anyway... Starter issue is the likely culprit. Try to get a wrench on your shaft and see if you can turn the engine over by hand. If you can't - your starter is either not lined up properly, or is in fact the wrong one for the car. Putting any amount of voltage to it, you won't be able to crank it, and it will seem like a dead battery. (bin there done that)
Long story short, I had to go into the mechanic's bay - tell the guy to remove the starter, then try to turn the engine by hand. This after he was trying to convince me that my engine had 'seized' and I should consider a new car. I bet him the price of the labour, and won - that the issue was indeed the starter (brand new) that he had just installed. My engine was fine - the starter was either crap, or just not spec'd right for the V6 engine.
2009 DN-01 Spakin' New!
1982 CX500 Turbo & Parts bike
1981 SL185 Yamaha Exciter
198? V45 Magna
1979 CX500 Deluxe
1982 CB750K Daily rider September 1999
1982 CX500 Custom - project Originally bought April 1982 safetied and on the road 09/2008
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06-28-2010, 11:13 PM
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Diesel08
Joined on 10-17-2009
Columbus, OH
Posts 244
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Re: Familiar with auto wrenching?
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Well tonight was night three of messing with it. We replaced the main fuse and double checked everything again. Everything looks good. The starter came with a new solenoid so thats not it as well. The only thing we havent done that you guys suggested is try a new battery. But we took the battery to O'Riellys to have it tested and it tested fine. Could there still be something wrong with it? We finally came to the conclusion to have it towed to a Ford shop in the morning and let them deal with it. He still has his motorcycle to ride and it's supposed to be great all week (lucky him). I'll be sure to let you guys know though when we find out what was wrong with it.
1980 CX500 Custom
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06-29-2010, 9:24 PM
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Blindstitch
Joined on 03-14-2009
Greenfield Wisconsin
Posts 9,863
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Re: Familiar with auto wrenching?
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Did you check the solenoid that should be on the fender wall?
Was power getting to the starter?
1979 CX500 Supertanker
ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier.
Quick Reference
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06-30-2010, 1:35 PM
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Linny
Joined on 04-20-2010
Duluth, Mn
Posts 70
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Re: Familiar with auto wrenching?
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Did the Oreiley tech do a load test on the battery or just check the voltage? I'd try a battery from a different vehicle you know works fine. From there I'd have the different modules on my mind. I had a bad 4x4 module on a ranger pick up that fouled with several seemingly unrelated devices -speedo, brake warning, tach...
'81 CX500c
'71 CB350
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06-30-2010, 6:08 PM
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George in Indiana
Joined on 03-03-2006
Posts 954
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Re: Familiar with auto wrenching?
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So what happens if you turn on the headlights and run all the power windows? If they crap out you simply have a bad lead off the battery.
CX500 TURBO
CX650 TURBO
'04 GSX1300R Hayabusa
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07-01-2010, 12:41 AM
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Panther
Joined on 05-09-2006
Las Vegas, NV
Posts 1,264
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Re: Familiar with auto wrenching?
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I am a service tech and my first thought is a bad ground on the battery. every time you try and pull any real power from the battery the power shuts down. turn the car off and on and the dash lights come back. try and start and they go out.
This is a classic description of a bad battery connection. usually on the ground wire, sometimes on the positive.
You can't just check the connection at the battery, if both battery wires are tight, you need to check where the ground wire and positive wire run to. I think on that Merc the power wire goes to the bolt on the side of the main power distribution box under the hood. make sure it is tight. next follow the ground wire to a connection somewhere on the body or motor of the car. make sure it is tight.
You can also have a bad connection at the battery where corrosion has made a poor conducting surface on the inside of the battery cable ends. they make a battery cable cleaner brush that can clean up the lead connection and make it shiny again.
I have see a couple of times where corrosion has built up Inside the ground wire make it a hi resistance circuit. this causes similar problems but isn't always obvious. the only fix is to replace the battery cables.
There is also a starter relay on this car. the starter relay is what provides power To the starter solinoid, but that would not cause the power to cut out like you describe.
Peace & Light
>^..^<
..........
'83 GL650swi "My Little Grey Lady"
'82 GL500swi parts bike
'78 DT175
'86 LS650 Milady's bike
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07-01-2010, 10:26 AM
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rickbert
Joined on 01-05-2009
Missouri....60 mis East of KC
Posts 1,384
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Re: Familiar with auto wrenching?
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Diesel,
It's been a couple days since you said it was gonna be towed to the Ford dealer.....
So let us know what the heck it was !!
You got me and I'm sure everyone else curious now !
1982 CX500C...22K miles...owned since 10/08
My age: 45
Bike's name: "Long Cool Woman in a Black Dress"
If you need to contact me personally send an email, I never get my pm's for some reason.
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07-02-2010, 6:11 PM
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Diesel08
Joined on 10-17-2009
Columbus, OH
Posts 244
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Re: Familiar with auto wrenching?
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The results are in... battery had a cell shorted to ground. Wish we would have tried a new battery.
1980 CX500 Custom
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07-03-2010, 8:50 AM
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George in Indiana
Joined on 03-03-2006
Posts 954
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Re: Familiar with auto wrenching?
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I dunno...sounds like they may have corrected a simple problem and decided to sell a battery too?
1) You said the voltage was fine. If a cell was bad you should have noticed something odd like 10 volts or a freshly charged battery draining itself in a few hours.
2) If you didn't check it properly (under load) the device O'Reilly's used should have caught the problem.
3) You tried to jump start it with no success. The fresh battery in the running car would easily overcome the one bad cell. If the battery was damaged really bad internally, you would have had major sparks flying when hooking up the jumper cables and noticed a huge load on the donor car's electrical system.
CX500 TURBO
CX650 TURBO
'04 GSX1300R Hayabusa
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07-03-2010, 4:42 PM
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rickbert
Joined on 01-05-2009
Missouri....60 mis East of KC
Posts 1,384
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Re: Familiar with auto wrenching?
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ah ha so my idea to bypass the battery and just hook the jumper cables up to the cables from your friends car would have done it....too bad he had to pay a dealer !
1982 CX500C...22K miles...owned since 10/08
My age: 45
Bike's name: "Long Cool Woman in a Black Dress"
If you need to contact me personally send an email, I never get my pm's for some reason.
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07-04-2010, 10:51 AM
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Pop
Joined on 10-03-2008
Conshohocken, Pa
Posts 241
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Re: Familiar with auto wrenching?
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I've seen this a couple times before. One time I blew the alternator on my car trying to jump a car with a shorted battery and on my daughters car (actually one of my cars but as anyone with a teenage daughter knows how it works with daddy's car) the battery showed 12 volts but wouldn't even light a test light. The only way to get that car started ,as Rickert said, was to bypass the battery.
I live by one rule: If it ain't broke don't fix it!
And if you can't fix it leave it the hell alone!
"I am what I am and that's all that I am" Popeye
82 CX500C (Sold)
82 Yamaha XV920 Virago (Wrecked)
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07-04-2010, 2:51 PM
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mr. softie
Joined on 03-14-2009
Beautiful Bucks County PA... I ride a 83 GL650I
Posts 663
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Re: Familiar with auto wrenching?
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Oooops!
May the wind always be at your back and the sun overhead as you make your way down the ever winding, smoothly paved, traffic free road!
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
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07-06-2010, 6:49 AM
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roundman72
Joined on 03-24-2009
Laporte Indiana
Posts 393
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Re: Familiar with auto wrenching?
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they (dealer) told me my aztek had a bad cell. i found this hard to believe that this was (now get this) causing all her gauges to not work and security to not allow car to start. i bought a "new" battery from wal-mart. still no good. i put the trickle charger on it overnight and all is working ok. now here comes the odd part. after a few more times (later jobs on car) of hooking and unhooking the battery the gauges will sometime not work and i have to unhook wait and hook back up the battery and all will be fine. I would never recomend an aztek to anyone! all kinds of wierd and annoying problems.
82 gl500I
82 xs650
70 cl450 (restoring)
74 cl450 (non runner)
00 Moto Guzzi Jackal (ended up selling)
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Honda CX500 & G... » Other Forums » Off-Topic Posts » Familiar with auto wrenching?
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