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07-17-2010, 9:37 AM Blue fox Joined on 04-18-2008 COLUMBIA, MISSOURI Posts 1,533 Briggs & Stratton engineering Yesterday, I had the task of getting a probably 25 year old Briggs & Stratton engine running for a friend.  I made the mistake of telling him I needed a new project to piddle with, and he picked up a pressure pump with a 8 hp Briggs engine & gear reduction.  Why, I don't know.  He has no use for this that I can imagine. Anyhow, the gas was semi-solid, but it did have a spark, and the engine turned.  As I was removing the carb, the engineering expertise on these engines made me wonder how we won WWII.  The bolts that hold the carb flange on were positioned to close to the manifold to get a socket on.  And one was under the lip of the air cleaner assembly.  Of course, a open end wrench didn't have the swing necessary either.  I finally used a open end held vertically with a bar in the upper end of the wrench to get them out.  If you ever get frustrated with how a Honda is put together, just try working on some of these older, bend to fit, American engines.  There is no comparison.  The Honda guys actually thought ahead on how these will eventually have to be serviced, and made allowances for dealing with that.  I did get it cleaned and running, but almost had to wrench on one of the bikes in between just to regain some sanity back.  Yeah, there may be a few areas Honda could have done different, but not that many when you actually think about it.   Blue Fox 1983 GL650I, 79-CX500C, 1980 CX500C, 82-GL500I, 82-GL1100, 76-CB550, 81-CB750C, 73-CB350F, 71-CT90,    Report

07-17-2010, 9:44 AM Shep Joined on 01-30-2007 UK.2x1980CX500A Posts 7,647 Re: Briggs & Stratton engineering Ditto and Amen to that.CX/GLs are a breeze to work on,something that should not be forgotten when assessing their worth This week I dropped and swapped an engine and swapped the heads from the dropped one to the one going in,in an afternoon My Music http://www.reverbnation.com/pauldouglas/ Join Just In Case :) http://globalcxglvtwins.hostingdelivered.com/ Id quot circumiret, circumveniat    Report

07-17-2010, 10:03 AM Cobram Joined on 06-23-2007 Boston, MA Posts 1,547 Re: Briggs & Stratton engineering Briggs are easy, you just have to take things apart as components.  You haven't worked on too many Japanese and Honda Motorcycles it seems.  The CX is the easiest, by far, to work on than just about any mid to upper CC machine they made/make.  It takes longer to get the cladding off some Honda's than it does to pull and rebuild an engine in the CX (well, almost.) You can't generalize, there are literally millions of different designs out there in vehicle and engine land, with some being easy in the extreme to access and others not so much.  Every manufacturer makes and has made both.  Some are just plain "WTF were they thinking" designs and executions in abundance across the line for all manufacturers.  I have 2 drawers full of $pecialty tools, most only serve a singular purpose for a single job on a specific car.  I find that the difficulty of the job is proportional to the diversity and quality of the tools you have at your disposal. But there are always jobs that are a huge PITA no matter what.  As for the "thinking ahead", I think most of it was a happy coincidence.  Try adjusting the carbs in bike on a standard CX, I could do it with the end of a tire gauge while sitting on the bike on my old BSA (maybe it was from the proficiency that comes with having to adjust them every other day....naww.) 1978 CX500 - I live on a one-way street that's also a dead end. I'm not sure how I got here, or how I'm going to get out. Four wheels move the body; Two wheels move the Soul.    Report

07-17-2010, 11:52 AM Abes_CW Joined on 04-17-2007 saskatoon Posts 3,036 Re: Briggs & Stratton engineering My late father in law was a mechanic, and he always thought the Japanese had way to much time on their hands with all the fine thread Metric fasteners they used. Mass production won us the war, not the superiority of our stuff. If not for Ford and General Motors, we'd probably be typing this in German right now. Sig Heil! 1983 GL650i Had 4 CX/GL's at one point this year, down to one, next spring is another adventure! age 38 (29 plus tax)    Report

07-18-2010, 5:08 AM roadster5580 Joined on 01-18-2008 Atlanta, GA Posts 326 Re: Briggs & Stratton engineering Most historians on the subject of WWII agree that the ultimate deciding factor was the strategic bombing campaigns of the U.S. AAF.  The workhorse equipment in the ETO was the B17 and the B29 in the PTO.  If there is truth to that thought, then it did boil down to superior equipment.  Neither the Germans nor the Japanese had anything close to either piece of equipment as a technological match.  It did hurt that both machines were massed produced by the 1,000's in a country that wasn't being bombed into oblivion on a daily basis. With that said..... Along with a massive amount of special tools, most seasoned mechanics I've worked with over the years have developed a vocabulary of "colorful" phrases that would make Eddie Murphy blush.  Most of the time, those tirades will eventually get back to the stupid a-hole that designed the @#$ damn, F*%king thing, in the first place. After 40 years of turning wrenches for a living, I believe deep down in my heart that there is a special place in hell for a select group of Design Engineers, because I've asked the Almighty himself to put them there on many occasions.  It gives me a deep sense of personal satisfaction to picture in my mind that they are committed for eternity to work on whatever piece of crap they designed.... on the side of the road, in a pouring rain, at 2:00 AM....with a flashlight, worn out screw driver, and a pair of Pakistani made slip-joint pliers. Honestly.... It makes me feel better.    Report

07-18-2010, 10:50 AM Cobram Joined on 06-23-2007 Boston, MA Posts 1,547 Re: Briggs & Stratton engineering  roadster5580 wrote: After 40 years of turning wrenches for a living, I believe deep down in my heart that there is a special place in hell for a select group of Design Engineers, because I've asked the Almighty himself to put them there on many occasions.  It gives me a deep sense of personal satisfaction to picture in my mind that they are committed for eternity to work on whatever piece of crap they designed.... on the side of the road, in a pouring rain, at 2:00 AM....with a flashlight, worn out screw driver, and a pair of Pakistani made slip-joint pliers. Cars that have spent their lives in the rust belt are 10X worse, at least most Euro Boxes use real steel for bolts and such, the Japanese and Americans still insist on using Britshitium (patented by the English for motorcycle use, the only metal known to man that can rust inside an oil bath.) If there is any justice at all in the universe, aircraft interior designers will spend eternity sitting in the middle of a 6 seat bank, under a broken AC nozzle, in a row with crying babies and flatulent old ladies in a 737 with no aisles.  If they had anything to do with the B777-300ER 3x4x3 long haul, they will also be treated to kids kicking the backs of their seat while a 500lb'er reclines in front of them.  Let's see how they like their space maximization formulas when they go through eternity in coach. 1978 CX500 - I live on a one-way street that's also a dead end. I'm not sure how I got here, or how I'm going to get out. Four wheels move the body; Two wheels move the Soul.    Report

07-18-2010, 2:48 PM johnsoncm Joined on 08-24-2009 Royal Oak, MI Posts 3 Re: Briggs & Stratton engineering First, I wouldn't say it's a great time to be dissing America. Second, You realize you're comparing a lawnmower engine to a motorcycle designed to the requirements of highway speed travel Third, Try designing something once to a database of requirements. Not just ONE requirement (like, "geez I'd better make this bolt accessible so some dude doesn't complain 25 years later) but LOTS of requirments that must be fulfilled SIMULTANEOUSLY. Cheers! Chad / '82 CX500C / owned since new / 31k mi    Report

07-18-2010, 3:33 PM Blue fox Joined on 04-18-2008 COLUMBIA, MISSOURI Posts 1,533 Re: Briggs & Stratton engineering First, I wasn't dissing America.  I am a Vietnam vet with a Bronze Star and proud to have served the greatest country in the world.  Second, the requirements of being on or off road should not affect the basic engineering of how to assemble parts.  I was raised on a farm where we did all the repair on 7 tractors, combines, balers, trucks, etc.  And all of that was American made.  So I do have a slight grasp on how we did things in the 50's and 60's.   The original point I was trying to make is that without the engineering competition from overseas, the American manufactures would not have had the incentive to improve their product.  My roommate purchased a CB500 in about 1974, brand new.  That was a big bike back then, as I was riding a Triumph 175.  Anyhow, he proceeded to balance a nickel on edge on the fins while it was running.  And then shut off the bike and restarted without it falling over.  Thats when I found the clue that these guys must have something good going on.  I can still do that trick on my Goldwing, CB350F, and CB550, by the way.  Third, that is what the engineers are payed to do.  To think through an assembly and come up with the best arrangement of parts to do the job, keep costs in check, and be able to repair as needed.  And yes, they should be thinking that in 25 years, someone may have to remove this bolt.  The particular bolts that irked me were open to the top, but drilled and tapped so close to a vertical pipe on a flange that even a thinwall socket wouldn't slip on.  Moving the holes outboard a 1/16" would have solved the problem.  Blue Fox 1983 GL650I, 79-CX500C, 1980 CX500C, 82-GL500I, 82-GL1100, 76-CB550, 81-CB750C, 73-CB350F, 71-CT90,    Report

07-18-2010, 4:24 PM Blindstitch Joined on 03-14-2009 Greenfield Wisconsin Posts 9,863 Re: Briggs & Stratton engineering Blue My government and econ teacher back in high school use to say why get a harley when I can balance a nickle on my bike through the revs. That' was about 12 years ago. Probably still has the bike. 1979 CX500 Supertanker ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier. Quick Reference    Report

07-18-2010, 5:28 PM Cobram Joined on 06-23-2007 Boston, MA Posts 1,547 Re: Briggs & Stratton engineering  Blue fox wrote: I was raised on a farm where we did all the repair on 7 tractors, combines, balers, trucks, etc.  And all of that was American made.  So I do have a slight grasp on how we did things in the 50's and 60's.    Going back to the previous statement about WWII, another reason the American forces were able to advance so well in WWII offensives.  Many of the soldiers were farm boys, and knew their way around machinery and had intuitive learning skills and knowledge from their combine/tractor etc. experiences.  These skills translated very well into keeping tanks, half track jeeps ect. running, and being able to slap together 3 or 4 Frankenvehicles  from disable equipment. 1978 CX500 - I live on a one-way street that's also a dead end. I'm not sure how I got here, or how I'm going to get out. Four wheels move the body; Two wheels move the Soul.    Report

07-19-2010, 6:50 AM marshallf3 Joined on 01-12-2009 Oklahoma City Posts 1,540 Re: Briggs & Stratton engineering Yea, the B&S (and many other) power equipment engines are mass produced with special assembly tools and the techs that have to work on them will usually have certain oddballa used just for servicing them. Check out a Snap-On tool catalog sometime and look at all the specialty tools they produce to do things like removing a BMW oxygen sensor or a VW transaxle nut. Even if you only specialize in working on one brand of something there's always certain tools you end up needing in your box. 1979 CX500C ░░░░░░░ 96 & 98 GTP, 78 Chevy G30 400V8, 78 Gremlin 304V8, 65 Barracuda 273V8    Report

07-19-2010, 10:14 AM Abes_CW Joined on 04-17-2007 saskatoon Posts 3,036 Re: Briggs & Stratton engineering One on one a Panzer completely outclassed a Sherman. Superior numbers won tank battles. The Me bf109 was the class of the field for fighters in 1939. If the 262 could have been produced in quantity, and a couple years earlier it also would have been a game changer. 1983 GL650i Had 4 CX/GL's at one point this year, down to one, next spring is another adventure! age 38 (29 plus tax)    Report

07-19-2010, 12:44 PM Steve in WA Joined on 08-02-2008 Port Orchard, WA Posts 63 Re: Briggs & Stratton engineering I also have had my fill of the B&S engines.  With my generator that may have 100 hours on it I have had the engine apart twice.  Seems that even the 3-1/2 HP engines need a compression release.  It is a separate lobe on the cam to open the exhaust valve until the piston is about 1/3 of the way up the compression stroke.  On mine, I set the clearances so that doesn't happen any more.  This year my riding mower started doing the same thing.  No compression.  After filing the exhaust valve with a points file I got it running. This summer I had to get a new mower because the steering was failing on the rider.  I shopped around and bought a Troy Built mower with a Honda OHV engine instead of the B&S.  On a side note, the Honda engine is much quieter than the B&S and now I can mow without hearing protection. Steve 1982 GL500I    Report

07-19-2010, 6:47 PM marshallf3 Joined on 01-12-2009 Oklahoma City Posts 1,540 Re: Briggs & Stratton engineering Anyone remember their "pulse jet" carb? An attempt at fuel injection powered by vacuum if I recall. 1979 CX500C ░░░░░░░ 96 & 98 GTP, 78 Chevy G30 400V8, 78 Gremlin 304V8, 65 Barracuda 273V8    Report

07-20-2010, 11:41 AM roadster5580 Joined on 01-18-2008 Atlanta, GA Posts 326 Re: Briggs & Stratton engineering Abes - I think you would get a pretty good debate going concerning your statement about the ME109 being the best plane in 1939... Most historians say the Battle of Britain pretty much went to the Marine Spitfire.  Anyway, to bad the war lasted until 1945 and the ME109 came up against the P-51 and in some cases the P-38. The ME262 was a pipe dream..... The B-17 and the 8th Air Force had bombed their production plants into a pile of cobblestones by late 1944. The Panther or Tiger up against a Sherman was also a lop-sided match..... until a P-47 showed up . Ever see the scene in Band of Brothers.. Where the US Army is running East on the Autobahn in an endless line of trucks and the German Army is marching West in the median with horses pulling carts?  Best line in the whole series.... Pvt. David Webster yells: What were you thinking???  Welcome to General F#$king Motors Asshole!!!!    Report

07-20-2010, 6:32 PM Ratbose Joined on 07-19-2009 Northern Utah Posts 61 Re: Briggs & Stratton engineering This story was told to me by a friend who was a high level model aircraft builder/flyer specializing in scale WWII aircraft. I cannot remember the particular aircraft involved but trust his knowledge.  The Japanese had a good airplane and the U.S. wanted to put it out of production. Intelligence concluded that the most efficient way was to bomb the bearing factory which supplied crucial bearings for the plane's in-line-engine. They did so successfully and the Japanese were put into such a bind that they were forced to hang a radial engine on it to try to keep something, even if far from the best, in the air. Turns out that it worked far better than the original design and was a far more formidable opponent when equipped that way.  Ya never know. If my V Strom's kicker goes bad I might just throw in my thirty year old Twisted Twin spare. To ride and shoot and tell a lie Is all you need to teach a guy CX500C PC800 650 V-Strom    Report

07-20-2010, 7:36 PM Cobram Joined on 06-23-2007 Boston, MA Posts 1,547 Re: Briggs & Stratton engineering Sounds like a good story, but has elements of urban legend.  The Japanese inline engines were problematic and avoided for the most part because their aircraft mechanics were all proficient and very adept at maintaining and repairing air-cooled radial engines, but had almost no experience or instruction in repair or maintenance of inline, liquid-cooled engines.  In-lines were almost all fuel-injected and radials carbureted engines, the fuel injection learning curve was a steep one during wartime.  The inline engine designed aircraft also had horrendous heat dissipation problems because of the manifold setups used to fit/streamline the aircraft, they had a tendency to burst into flames if there was an oil or fuel leak.  Field maintenance, quick "plug/play" engine replacement were big pluses for the radials.  By the time the Japanese started to get proficient in keeping in-lines up and running on the flight line, the war was winding down and the writing was on the wall for Imperial Japan. I got this directly from the horses mouth as they say.  In the early 1980's I went on a tour of Silver Hill (where the Smithsonian kept it's REALLY cool aircraft and restored them), our volunteer tour guide was a flight line mechanic on a Japanese aircraft carrier which was sunk at the battle of Midway.  I don't think they have tours anymore, a real shame too, I took about 7 or them over the years, always something different and you could climb in and on the aircraft (within limits of course) and never a boring guide, most were retired guys who were intimately involved with aircraft and flying.  I haven't been there, but their newer restoration facility is a kin to the A&S, a behind the ropes kind of place from what I hear. 1978 CX500 - I live on a one-way street that's also a dead end. I'm not sure how I got here, or how I'm going to get out. Four wheels move the body; Two wheels move the Soul.    Report

07-21-2010, 7:30 AM Johnny Canuck Joined on 07-19-2010 Newmarket, Ontario Posts 7 Re: Briggs & Stratton engineering Mitsubishi Zero was fitted with an "old" radial engine for the reasons stated above. Fortunately limited available horsepower meant they cut out thick protective plating behind pilot's seat, and also did not fit with self-sealing fuel tanks which would have added to the weight In the end, the downfall of this aircraft was the protection factors of excluding these two items. You just had to straffe a half fueled Zero in flight by aiming for the wings (largest target area) and the thing would blow up quickly. On a chase, just pump a few rounds into the cockpit area and same result. If you ever get a chance to watch the evolution of the Fokker Wolf 190 (on Military Channel), now that was a plane! Johnny Canuck Had - 71 Honda 350 Had - 02 Yamaha 1100 VStar Silverado Have - 83 Honda CX650    Report

07-21-2010, 11:57 AM Harold Joined on 12-28-2006 Beside Washademoak Lake, N.B. Canada Posts 851 Re: Briggs & Stratton engineering Since this thread has turned to the topic of aircraft,,,,,,, has anyone seen the documentary "B-29 Frozen in Time", it was on Nova last night, It has been on before, I think it was made in 1995. What a heartbreaker "People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich women than biker gangs." 1978 CX500 1980 CX500 Custom 1981 CX500 Custom 1982 GL500 Silverwing 1975 XL-100 http://www.myspace.com/downwiththebutterfly    Report

07-21-2010, 12:55 PM Linny Joined on 04-20-2010 Duluth, Mn Posts 70 Re: Briggs & Stratton engineering I'm excited to see mention of these old planes since the Duluth airshow was this past weekend! The Japanese planes were nowhere near as sexy as the American ones! <img src="http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/bellkugar/IMG_7362.jpg" border="0" /> vs <img src="http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/bellkugar/IMG_7370.jpg" border="0" /> '81 CX500c '71 CB350    Report

07-21-2010, 6:31 PM Blindstitch Joined on 03-14-2009 Greenfield Wisconsin Posts 9,863 Re: Briggs & Stratton engineering  Linny wrote: I'm excited to see mention of these old planes since the Duluth airshow was this past weekend! The Japanese planes were nowhere near as sexy as the American ones! http://s941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/bellkugar/ 1979 CX500 Supertanker ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier. Quick Reference    Report

07-21-2010, 9:02 PM Dash Joined on 08-25-2008 San Francisco, California Posts 628 Re: Briggs & Stratton engineering Jeepers, the Briggs & Stratton engines I've worked on have been a piece of cake.  Guess I lucked out on the models I've come across.  I agree with other members here that the CX/GL500 is a piece of cake to work on.  Can't say all Honda are great though because I own a '76 Honda Goldwing.  That motorcycle is a mother to work on.  I mean nothing is easy on that bike.  Carbs?  Set aside an hour just to remove them if you're experienced.  Gas tank?  I'd set aside about 5 hours to remove it.   Motor?  I'd say that's about a 3 hour job if you're experienced.  Plan on repeating numerous times, "Why did they do that?"  My old Cadillac Eldorado convertible is surprisingly easy to work on for a front wheel drive car.  The engine sits north-south, not transverse.  The transmission is merely backwards sitting next to the motor and is connected to the motor with a 3 inch wide chain.  Engine compartment is so huge the 500 cu in. (8.2 liter) motor has plenty of room to work. '67 Honda Dream '70 Moto Guzzi Ambassador '75 Suzuki GT250 '76 Goldwing '81 GL500 Silverwing '82 GL500 Silverwing <--just bought it 16 Mar 2010 '90 Yamaha XT350 '91 Kawasaki KDX200    Report

07-22-2010, 8:21 AM Toeehad Joined on 06-22-2010 Worcester, MA Posts 103 Re: Briggs & Stratton engineering Abut the documentary.... Yah, I saw that. What a shame. It actually made me choke up a little! 1980 CX500C 1974 TS125 (Sold)    Report

07-22-2010, 8:27 AM Toeehad Joined on 06-22-2010 Worcester, MA Posts 103 Re: Briggs & Stratton engineering Abut the documentary.... Yah, I saw that. What a shame. It actually made me choke up a little! 1980 CX500C 1974 TS125 (Sold)    Report

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