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06-28-2010, 3:33 PM jasonh Joined on 06-14-2010 Longmont, CO Posts 78 I guess I have to do the cam chain Well after adjusting the valves and re-adjusting the cam chain, the dreaded noise is still there, so I guess I'm in need of a cam chain replacement. Trying to keep the cost down this go-round, so here's the list of stuff I figure I will absolutely need: Qty Part Number Desc.   Price Ea Total 2 18291-286-306 Exhaust gasket 4.13 8.26 1 11394-449-306 Rear cover gasket 21.91 21.91 5 91301-MB6-003 Water pipe o-ring 1.21 6.05 2 94608-50000 Water pipe o-ring 0.6 1.2 1 14401-MA1-013 Cam chain 92.36 92.36 1 91312-415-000 o-ring 1.63 1.63 1 30373-MA1-306 pulser cover gasket 3.18 3.18 1 154A1-413-005 oil filter 6.39 6.39 1 91201-951-003 clutch arm oil seal 2.31 2.31 1 11372-449-306 clutch cover gasket 6.72 6.72 1 11391-449-306 front cover gasket   13.5 13.5 163.51 I've found a few lists while searching, but everybody seems to have some variations in their lists...  clutch arm oil seal is there because mine is leaking Figure I'll take off the front cover and clean all that out while I'm at it. Anything I'm missing?  I know I'll need to find the M20x1.5 bolt for the flywheel, but other than that I'm at a loss.  81 GL500    Report

06-28-2010, 3:55 PM Shep Joined on 01-30-2007 UK.2x1980CX500A Posts 7,647 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain Loctite/Thread lock.You have to use it on the two small bolts that hold the top Driven Cam gear. You need a way to lock the engine as well.There are several ways.Do NOT use a Vise wrench as they can give of shards of metal. You can make the special tool, This is my preferred method using a spare gear I have from a gearbox, Even this works, Does your list include this O-ring.Number 11 on here, http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cx500a-1980england_model16465/partslist/E12.aspx My Music http://www.reverbnation.com/pauldouglas/ Join Just In Case :) http://globalcxglvtwins.hostingdelivered.com/ Id quot circumiret, circumveniat    Report

06-28-2010, 4:03 PM Mothman52 Joined on 09-23-2008 Berkeley, CA Posts 785 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain How about the shift seal? Sorry, I don't have the number on me but it can leak and why not replace it while you're doing everything else? Where are you at with the oil seal and the mechanical seal behind the water pump? If you're cracking the case, you'd be foolish not to do those as well.... 1982 CX500C in Metallic Black & Gray    Report

06-28-2010, 5:41 PM Blindstitch Joined on 03-14-2009 Greenfield Wisconsin Posts 9,863 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain How about inspecting it with a dental mirror first? http://globalcxglvtwins.hostingdelivered.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=528 1979 CX500 Supertanker ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier. Quick Reference    Report

06-28-2010, 6:07 PM Blue fox Joined on 04-18-2008 COLUMBIA, MISSOURI Posts 1,533 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain And add that O ring that goes on the chain adjuster bolt.  It can't be changed without removing the rear cover. Edit:  You may have that listed above, I didn't look up the part number on the one O ring.   Blue Fox 1983 GL650I, 79-CX500C, 1980 CX500C, 82-GL500I, 82-GL1100, 76-CB550, 81-CB750C, 73-CB350F, 71-CT90,    Report

06-29-2010, 9:09 AM jasonh Joined on 06-14-2010 Longmont, CO Posts 78 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain Shep,  Thanks for the suggestions on keeping the motor from turning.  I'll probably go with the coin method since I don't have the tools to make the tool. Are you referring to the oil seal behind the water pump?  #13 here? Mothman,  Is the shift seal #7 here? Mechanical seal isn't leaking, so I'm not worried about it right now.  I need to have the bike down and back together as quickly as possible since it's my daily rider, and I'm trying to keep the cost down...it's adding up quick. Blindstitch,  I tried to, but my mirror is too big to fit in the hole.  Not only that, I really have no idea what I'm looking at - I can't really make much out in the pictures.  I stuck my finger in there and felt around, and it doesn't feel like anything is broken, so that's good. Blue fox,  Yep, got that one :) Thanks guys. 81 GL500    Report

06-29-2010, 9:15 AM DougD Joined on 05-29-2009 Dundas Ontario Age 43 Posts 201 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain Jason, Crikey, don't tear apart an engine without checking just because your dental mirror is too big! Pretty tiny investment compared to your list of parts above, check first and make sure you're doing the right procedure, particularly if you're on a budget. If you don't know what to look for look here: http://choppercharles.com/cs/forums/154303/PrintPost.aspx I know there's some photos kicking around of what this looks like with the cover off. If you're stuck send me a PM with your email address and I'll send copies to ya. 80 CX500 Deluxe - Sold 86 Interceptor 500 93 Kawi Concours 81 GL500 - The Silver Thing, gone but not forgotten    Report

06-29-2010, 9:34 AM jasonh Joined on 06-14-2010 Longmont, CO Posts 78 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain Doug, Well, I'm certainly planning on getting a smaller mirror before I order parts, but seeing as I've adjusted the valves and chain tension and the bike still sounds like this ... The main thing is looking at the pictures, I don't really see much.  I'm sure once I have it apart, those pics will make more sense to me :) 81 GL500    Report

06-29-2010, 10:12 AM Linny Joined on 04-20-2010 Duluth, Mn Posts 70 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain I'm in the process of replacing the cam chain too. I bought a 20mmx1.5 oil drain plug from Napa for $4. To give it enough length I put 3 dimes against the shaft. Worked great. To hold the shaft I jammed a rag in the gears on the front of the engine. '81 CX500c '71 CB350    Report

06-29-2010, 10:44 AM jasonh Joined on 06-14-2010 Longmont, CO Posts 78 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain  Linny wrote: I'm in the process of replacing the cam chain too. I bought a 20mmx1.5 oil drain plug from Napa for $4. To give it enough length I put 3 dimes against the shaft. Worked great. To hold the shaft I jammed a rag in the gears on the front of the engine. Did you have to ask for the bolt by vehicle or did you just give them the size? 81 GL500    Report

06-29-2010, 11:04 AM Linny Joined on 04-20-2010 Duluth, Mn Posts 70 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain I told the guy the size I needed. The packaging has 20 x 1,5 stamped on the top. Fast and easy! '81 CX500c '71 CB350    Report

06-29-2010, 11:15 AM CHIANGMAICXMAN Joined on 01-12-2009 Chiang Mai, Thailand Posts 170 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain Looking at your parts list, your could save quite a bit by making your own gaskets! As for the OIL Seals, I saved about half by going to an SK Bearing dealer here.  The had the EXACT same part, down to manufacturer in fact, at half the price.  I think the CAM Shaft oil seals Front and Back were about USD1.20 or less. Mark in Thailand GL400 (79-83 bits and pieces)    Report

06-29-2010, 11:19 AM Shep Joined on 01-30-2007 UK.2x1980CX500A Posts 7,647 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain  jasonh wrote: Shep,  Thanks for the suggestions on keeping the motor from turning.  I'll probably go with the coin method since I don't have the tools to make the tool. Are you referring to the oil seal behind the water pump?  #13 here? Yes.It's the same seal just different number drawing number AFAIK.They get brittle with age/none use and as soon as you replace the rear cover they tend to go.New ones don;t suffer from this and if in continual use they last for ages just like water pump seals.It's the drying out from lack of use that kills them. My Music http://www.reverbnation.com/pauldouglas/ Join Just In Case :) http://globalcxglvtwins.hostingdelivered.com/ Id quot circumiret, circumveniat    Report

06-29-2010, 1:01 PM jasonh Joined on 06-14-2010 Longmont, CO Posts 78 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain Thanks Shep, will get that one as the bike was sitting for 2 years before I bought it.  Also going to get the water pump gasket just in case it's no good when I pull it off. I am thinking about making my own gaskets, but a) need to find proper material, b) need punches, and c) out of razor blades.  So likely I'll be coming in close to the same price I think. Here's how it's shaping up currently: Qty Part Number Desc.   Price Ea Total 2 18291-286-306 Exhaust gasket 4.13 8.26 1 11394-449-306 Rear cover gasket 21.91 21.91 5 91301-MB6-003 Water pipe o-ring 1.21 6.05 2 94608-50000 Water pipe o-ring 0.6 1.2 1 14401-MA1-013 Cam chain 92.36 92.36 1 91312-415-000 o-ring 1.63 1.63 1 91202-283-013 water pump oil seal 7.09 7.09 1 11396-415-000 water pump gasket 3.73 3.73 1 91251-ZW5-003 shifter seal 2.43 2.43 1 30373-MA1-306 pulser cover gasket 3.18 3.18 1 154A1-413-005 oil filter 6.39 6.39 1 91201-951-003 clutch arm oil seal 2.31 2.31 1 11372-449-306 clutch cover gasket 6.72 6.72 1 11391-449-306 front cover gasket   13.5 13.5 176.76 Plus new oil and coolant. 81 GL500    Report

06-29-2010, 1:18 PM CHIANGMAICXMAN Joined on 01-12-2009 Chiang Mai, Thailand Posts 170 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain  jasonh wrote: Thanks Shep, will get that one as the bike was sitting for 2 years before I bought it.  Also going to get the water pump gasket just in case it's no good when I pull it off. I am thinking about making my own gaskets, but a) need to find proper material, b) need punches, and c) out of razor blades.  So likely I'll be coming in close to the same price I think. Here's how it's shaping up currently: Qty Part Number Desc.   Price Ea Total 2 18291-286-306 Exhaust gasket 4.13 8.26 1 11394-449-306 Rear cover gasket 21.91 21.91 5 91301-MB6-003 Water pipe o-ring 1.21 6.05 2 94608-50000 Water pipe o-ring 0.6 1.2 1 14401-MA1-013 Cam chain 92.36 92.36 1 91312-415-000 o-ring 1.63 1.63 1 91202-283-013 water pump oil seal 7.09 7.09 1 11396-415-000 water pump gasket 3.73 3.73 1 91251-ZW5-003 shifter seal 2.43 2.43 1 30373-MA1-306 pulser cover gasket 3.18 3.18 1 154A1-413-005 oil filter 6.39 6.39 1 91201-951-003 clutch arm oil seal 2.31 2.31 1 11372-449-306 clutch cover gasket 6.72 6.72 1 11391-449-306 front cover gasket   13.5 13.5 176.76 Plus new oil and coolant. None of the equipment or material need to make your own gaskets are all that expensive.  A rough calculation gives about 50 bucks in gaskets without even beginning to get into front gaskets.  In the end you will save a tone of money making your own!!!! So you spend 20 in tools and materials, its well worth it for the experience and savings. I'm doing it, others are doing it YOU CAN TOO!!!!! Not that hard.  I dab some liquid shoe polish on the part, press on the gasket material to make an outline then punch and cut!!! Pretty simple really!!!  I'm a cheapskate living in Thailand where these gaskets are not available locally and with no prior experience have done it quite easily. Mark in Thailand GL400 (79-83 bits and pieces)    Report

06-30-2010, 11:36 AM jasonh Joined on 06-14-2010 Longmont, CO Posts 78 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain Yeah, I'm still considering it.  Mainly I need to find the correct gasket material somewhere... 81 GL500    Report

07-01-2010, 12:50 AM spanish bandit Joined on 02-12-2009 southern spain Posts 5,010 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain  jasonh wrote: Yeah, I'm still considering it.  Mainly I need to find the correct gasket material somewhere... jason,if you go in this direction,just be aware......the thickness of the rear cover gasket is fairly critical,get it wrong,youl be pulling that engine back out pretty quick when i feel the need,i do it,llego,ve 60,s ----------------------------- 2008.1982 honda gli silverwing [uk model ] 2010.1981 honda gli silverwing [uk model ]    Report

07-01-2010, 7:25 AM jasonh Joined on 06-14-2010 Longmont, CO Posts 78 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain Tried inspecting with a dental mirror.  I have no idea what I'm looking at though.  These pics aren't great, I'll try to get more when I find my bendable LED flashlight. 81 GL500    Report

07-01-2010, 8:13 PM Blindstitch Joined on 03-14-2009 Greenfield Wisconsin Posts 9,863 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain You are looking at that piece in the top right of the first picture. The amount of hole matters. 1979 CX500 Supertanker ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier. Quick Reference    Report

07-07-2010, 7:37 PM philbrewer Joined on 04-26-2010 Detroit, MI Posts 155 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain Any progress? Are you replacing the adjuster also? 1978 cx500    Report

07-13-2010, 12:54 PM jasonh Joined on 06-14-2010 Longmont, CO Posts 78 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain <BLOCKQUOTE><table width="85%"><tr><td class="txt4"><img src="/cs/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif">&nbsp;<strong>philbrewer wrote:</strong></td></tr><tr><td class="quoteTable"><table width="100%"><tr><td width="100%" valign="top" class="txt4">Any progress? Are you replacing the adjuster also?</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE> Parts just came in today. I wish I would've ordered the rear gasket though, since I'm having a heck of a time finding gasket material wide enough locally. I'm also having a heck of a time finding the M20x1.5 bolt to pull the flywheel. Local NAPA didn't have anything, neither did the local Fastenal (apparently M20x1.5 isn't common enough for them to stock. Can't the US just go to the metric system already?) I'm not replacing the tensioner..not planning on it anyway. Haven't pulled the motor yet. 81 GL500    Report

07-13-2010, 12:59 PM jasonh Joined on 06-14-2010 Longmont, CO Posts 78 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain <BLOCKQUOTE><table width="85%"><tr><td class="txt4"><img src="/cs/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif">&nbsp;<strong>Linny wrote:</strong></td></tr><tr><td class="quoteTable"><table width="100%"><tr><td width="100%" valign="top" class="txt4">I told the guy the size I needed. The packaging has 20 x 1,5 stamped on the top. Fast and easy!</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE> You wouldn't happen to have the napa part # for it still, would you? My Napa guys are a little..well, you know... 81 GL500    Report

07-13-2010, 2:15 PM Linny Joined on 04-20-2010 Duluth, Mn Posts 70 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain M20-1,50 part #65221 brand- DORMAN OIL-TITE! from NAPA '81 CX500c '71 CB350    Report

07-13-2010, 4:11 PM Toeehad Joined on 06-22-2010 Worcester, MA Posts 103 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain Advance was the only local chain that had it in stock for me. 1980 CX500C 1974 TS125 (Sold)    Report

07-14-2010, 9:31 AM jasonh Joined on 06-14-2010 Longmont, CO Posts 78 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain Thanks guys. That part number doesn't even pull up anything on Napa's website, but Advance's site shows it as in-stock at my closest store, so I'll head there to pick it up.  I was there before, but the guy had no idea how to find what I needed since I didn't know what vehicle it was from, lol. Pulled the motor last night.  I left the hbox on, so I think I made it a little more difficult on myself.  I wish I would've ordered the asbestos gaskets for the hbox though, as one of them was destroyed while pulling the pipe (required lots of heat, lots of banging) For future reference, what's the best way to drain the coolant?  I tried removing the lower rubber hose, and ended up just making a mess...is there a drain plug somewhere I missed? 81 GL500    Report

07-14-2010, 9:39 AM Blindstitch Joined on 03-14-2009 Greenfield Wisconsin Posts 9,863 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain The H-box and headers can come apart as a single unit but the mufflers have to be off. 1979 CX500 Supertanker ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier. Quick Reference    Report

07-14-2010, 11:28 AM jasonh Joined on 06-14-2010 Longmont, CO Posts 78 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain I got it backwards then...I thought the mufflers and hbox are the ones that come off as a unit.  Oh well. 81 GL500    Report

07-14-2010, 12:45 PM JustPaul Joined on 03-24-2010 Boise Idaho Posts 82 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain Jason, if you continue to have problems finding the M bolt let me know. I have several spares and would gladly send you one. Boise to Longmont shouldn't take more than a couple of days. Just PM me with your address. Paul 1982 CX500 Custom - ~ 24k miles 1984 Sabre VF700s - ~ 57k miles    Report

07-14-2010, 4:27 PM Blindstitch Joined on 03-14-2009 Greenfield Wisconsin Posts 9,863 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain Well it's an either or game. I prefer fighting mufflers back on instead of headers. 1979 CX500 Supertanker ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier. Quick Reference    Report

07-15-2010, 9:40 AM Linny Joined on 04-20-2010 Duluth, Mn Posts 70 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain I got the whole exhaust system to drop as a unit by first taking off the brake pedal. '81 CX500c '71 CB350    Report

07-16-2010, 1:25 PM Mothman52 Joined on 09-23-2008 Berkeley, CA Posts 785 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain I'm replacing the mechanical seal soon so dropping the engine and seeing how the cam chain looks up close and replace if necessary... Just to let you know you're not alone out there with your engine apart... Best of luck to you and post if you run into any problems. 1982 CX500C in Metallic Black & Gray    Report

07-17-2010, 9:17 AM risingphoenix Joined on 07-06-2010 Hudson, NY Posts 13 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain Jason, Having done my chain @ 44k I ASSUMED the stator would last another couple years. Wrong... 2k later i was in there again to change that. if you haven't already, consider changing it if $ allows. also the chain adjuster on mine was worn as much or maybe more than the chain itself. do you plan on changing the mechanical seal behind the water pump? Jeff Jeff- Hudson, NY 81 CX500 Custom    Report

07-19-2010, 8:38 AM jasonh Joined on 06-14-2010 Longmont, CO Posts 78 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain Well I pulled the covers last night.  Cam chain is definitely the culprit - lots of metal worn away, as well as a large portion of that bolt head.  amazing I haven't found any metal shavings in the oil. I found the correct bolt the pull the flywheel (oil drain plug).  unfortunately while trying to pull the flywheel, the bolt threads stripped, and messed up the threads on the flywheel :( It looks like the threads can be repaired since thankfully they were harder than the bolt, but I can't really afford the $60 just for a M20 tap.  I may order a couple high-grade bolts and use the old cut-slots-in-the-bolt-with-a-dremel trick for a pseudo-tap, since the threads just need cleaned up a bit. What a pain. 81 GL500    Report

07-19-2010, 8:53 AM Blindstitch Joined on 03-14-2009 Greenfield Wisconsin Posts 9,863 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain Did you not put a washer on the front of the bolt? Mine practically jumped right off. 1979 CX500 Supertanker ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier. Quick Reference    Report

07-19-2010, 10:23 AM jasonh Joined on 06-14-2010 Longmont, CO Posts 78 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain yeah, I put a washer on there. My fan jumped off with less than a quarter turn.  Not sure why the flywheel wouldn't budge.  It looked like it pulled away a little bit, but not 100%.  What a pain. 81 GL500    Report

07-19-2010, 12:50 PM dixiedreg Joined on 06-11-2010 Posts 6 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain What noises are you talking about? I have what i would think is valve chatter and have wondered what it was. A local guy told me it might be a cam chain.    Report

07-19-2010, 3:32 PM jasonh Joined on 06-14-2010 Longmont, CO Posts 78 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain It's a loud metallic tapping/ticking.  If it doesn't go away after properly adjusting the valves and cam chain tension, then it's time to worry.  There are a lot of threads about it here. I broke down and ordered the puller from servicehonda.  It was almost the same price as a proper class 10.9 bolt, lol.  I'm not going to continue wasting my time trying to find a bolt locally.  I know of one place I can get one, but it's downtown Denver - which means I'll spend just as much on gas to make up the difference. 81 GL500    Report

07-20-2010, 10:54 AM jasonh Joined on 06-14-2010 Longmont, CO Posts 78 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain Wow, this is lame. "We no longer order special tools through Honda.  Your credit card has not been charged." Well thanks for leaving it up and orderable on your website.  Sheesh.  Freaking lame. Well, back to the drawing board.  Guess I will just order a couple bolts.  What a pain. 81 GL500    Report

07-20-2010, 3:46 PM Abes_CW Joined on 04-17-2007 saskatoon Posts 3,036 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain nm 1983 GL650i Had 4 CX/GL's at one point this year, down to one, next spring is another adventure! age 38 (29 plus tax)    Report

07-20-2010, 9:21 PM philbrewer Joined on 04-26-2010 Detroit, MI Posts 155 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain jasonh I have the bolt if you need it. 1978 cx500    Report

07-21-2010, 11:34 AM jasonh Joined on 06-14-2010 Longmont, CO Posts 78 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain Well I found a place that will have me a couple bolts around friday for like $3 a piece, so that helps. Thanks for the offers though. 81 GL500    Report

07-22-2010, 8:31 AM Toeehad Joined on 06-22-2010 Worcester, MA Posts 103 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain Make sure you apply oil or grease liberally to the threads when you are using a puller, or else they can bind and cause all sorts of galling. 1980 CX500C 1974 TS125 (Sold)    Report

07-22-2010, 8:41 AM jasonh Joined on 06-14-2010 Longmont, CO Posts 78 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain  Toeehad wrote: Make sure you apply oil or grease liberally to the threads when you are using a puller, or else they can bind and cause all sorts of galling. I think that may have been part of the problem.  My neighbor (train mechanic) said the same thing - because the bolt is so soft compared to the flywheel, you're more likely to get issues without lube. Luckily the bolt was soft metal so the threads came off of it instead of the flywheel.  New bolts I'm getting are class 10.9, and the threads look good enough still on the flywheel to be repaired.  Plenty of lube on the threads will be used, as will some heat on the flywheel to ease the pulling. 81 GL500    Report

07-22-2010, 12:04 PM Linny Joined on 04-20-2010 Duluth, Mn Posts 70 Re: I guess I have to do the cam chain Try putting a penetrant on the shaft (I used Shep's brake fluid tip) before tightening the bolt. once the bolt is tight try tapping it with a rubber malet. This worked for the flywheel removal on my study engine. For the other I was gonna do the same thing but instead of tightening the bolt by hand I tried tightening it with my air impact wrench and the flywheel zipped loose before I could let go of the trigger. I hope you get it on your next try. '81 CX500c '71 CB350    Report

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