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General Discussion
Started by philbrewer at 06-09-2010 8:42 AM. Topic has 39 replies.
  
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 06-09-2010, 8:42 AM
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philbrewer
Joined on 04-26-2010
Detroit, MI
Posts 155
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Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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I'm transplanting parts across 2 engine blocks to create 1 healthy running engine. Here are pictures of them with rear covers off exposing cam chains. First one I have tightened up a bit and seems ok now, but you can see damage has been done. The second picture has the same block damage and a broken tensioner bolt. I will be testing my easy out skills to remove the remaining bolt as this is the block I will be installing in the bike. The reason I need to reuse the block with broken tensioner bolt is because the other engine needs a ring job. Is that water damage in the second pic?
I'm thinking I will take both chains off and compare length (initial thoughts are the top engine has a usable chain.)
1978 cx500
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06-09-2010, 9:26 AM
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kingston73
 
Joined on 04-19-2008
Bellingham, MA
Posts 1,722
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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If I were you, if you can afford it I'd buy a brand new chain and a new tension arm, no matter how it looks. That way you can rest easy at night knowing things won't fail in a year or two. I'd also change the oil seal in the rear cover as well, plus all the rubber o-rings. It might be worth the added expense in the long run.
1979 cx500D - mostly stock
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06-09-2010, 9:46 AM
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Blindstitch
Joined on 03-14-2009
Greenfield Wisconsin
Posts 9,861
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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Both might be near the ends of their lives but only seeing them intact and how they sit at the tensioner bolt. If I was going to do this project I would probably spend the $82 and buy a new chain from Georgefix on ebay.
1979 CX500 Supertanker
ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier.
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06-09-2010, 9:47 AM
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philbrewer
Joined on 04-26-2010
Detroit, MI
Posts 155
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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Stitch
Does the engine in the second picture look familiar? I got it from Joel in Grand Rapids (he got it from you). ;)
Kingston
I fully agree, and have a running parts list that includes all O rings/gaskets/chain/tensioner. Actually I plan to cut my own gaskets to save money. My main concern is the damn broken cam tensioner bolt!
1978 cx500
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06-09-2010, 10:06 AM
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kingston73
Joined on 04-19-2008
Bellingham, MA
Posts 1,722
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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Which bolt is broken? Is it in the picture? Just make sure you make the rear gasket the right thickness, otherwise you could have clearance issues.
1979 cx500D - mostly stock
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06-09-2010, 10:12 AM
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spanish bandit
Joined on 02-12-2009
southern spain
Posts 5,010
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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 kingston73 wrote: | | Which bolt is broken? Is it in the picture? Just make sure you make the rear gasket the right thickness, otherwise you could have clearance issues. |
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kingstone,from what phil posted on sheps site,its the cam chain adjuster bolt............
which should come out easy
when i feel the need,i do it,llego,ve 60,s
-----------------------------
2008.1982 honda gli silverwing [uk model ]
2010.1981 honda gli silverwing [uk model ]
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06-09-2010, 10:39 AM
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Blindstitch
Joined on 03-14-2009
Greenfield Wisconsin
Posts 9,861
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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| philbrewer wrote: | Stitch
Does the engine in the second picture look familiar? I got it from Joel in Grand Rapids (he got it from you). ;)
Kingston
I fully agree, and have a running parts list that includes all O rings/gaskets/chain/tensioner. Actually I plan to cut my own gaskets to save money. My main concern is the damn broken cam tensioner bolt!
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Hard to recognize it but I can tell you the stator was toast. Other than that it seemed fine and had decent compression. I actually got it from WisconsinCx in a bike.
1979 CX500 Supertanker
ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier.
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06-09-2010, 11:43 AM
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philbrewer
Joined on 04-26-2010
Detroit, MI
Posts 155
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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Yea, I did a stator swap from the donor engine few days ago. Now I need to install the new cam chain and a few other parts. After I opened it up there was some milkshake colored goo sitting in the bottom of the case, and some nasty rusty goo on the cam gear (red stuff in the 2nd pic) and magneto. Figured I would replace those with parts from the donor while I was in there, and clean out the oil pump and anything else. Big project but I think after I am finished I'll have a good runner. Hopefully the transplanted stator holds up.
1978 cx500
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06-09-2010, 11:50 AM
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Blue fox
Joined on 04-18-2008
COLUMBIA, MISSOURI
Posts 1,533
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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Shoot us a closeup picture of the broken bolt. We may be able to suggest ways to remove it easier than a Easy Out. I wouldn't think that broken end would be in there tight at all. The shoulder of the bolt would stop the turning before the threads bottomed out and got tight. You may be able to spin it out with a awl.
Blue Fox
1983 GL650I, 79-CX500C, 1980 CX500C, 82-GL500I, 82-GL1100, 76-CB550, 81-CB750C, 73-CB350F, 71-CT90,
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06-09-2010, 11:58 AM
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philbrewer
Joined on 04-26-2010
Detroit, MI
Posts 155
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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I'll post the high res pic tonight after 7pm when I get home. What is an awl?
1978 cx500
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06-09-2010, 12:03 PM
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spanish bandit
Joined on 02-12-2009
southern spain
Posts 5,010
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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06-09-2010, 12:06 PM
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philbrewer
Joined on 04-26-2010
Detroit, MI
Posts 155
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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Cool, I appreciate the help, I am hoping this is the hardest part of the surgery, well.......after I remove flywheel.
1978 cx500
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06-09-2010, 12:09 PM
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spanish bandit
Joined on 02-12-2009
southern spain
Posts 5,010
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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| philbrewer wrote: | Cool, I appreciate the help, I am hoping this is the hardest part of the surgery, well.......after I remove flywheel.
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good luck phil.
you know the size of the bolt you need to pop the flywheel,,,,yes....
when i feel the need,i do it,llego,ve 60,s
-----------------------------
2008.1982 honda gli silverwing [uk model ]
2010.1981 honda gli silverwing [uk model ]
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06-09-2010, 12:15 PM
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philbrewer
Joined on 04-26-2010
Detroit, MI
Posts 155
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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I thought I read somewhere I can use the Subaru oil pan drain bolt (M20 x 1.5) with a washer super glued on. Is that the easiest way? And the front axel from my 78 to pull the cooling fan?
I'll be locking the gears from the front of the engine with the cam dampener gear from the final drive ;)
1978 cx500
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06-09-2010, 12:32 PM
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spanish bandit
Joined on 02-12-2009
southern spain
Posts 5,010
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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no phil, id get the right bolts
flywheel,(20mm)-(1.5 thread) X (70mm long) M88B (Hi tensile code) a few bucks
fan.......Fan puller bolt.
M14 x 1.5 about 2 inches long
there are very good reasons not to use an axil.......to get the flywheel off,it might take more torque than a sump bolt can take
id get the right bolts,paint them yellow,they are the tools forever.
when i feel the need,i do it,llego,ve 60,s
-----------------------------
2008.1982 honda gli silverwing [uk model ]
2010.1981 honda gli silverwing [uk model ]
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06-09-2010, 2:31 PM
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Blue fox
Joined on 04-18-2008
COLUMBIA, MISSOURI
Posts 1,533
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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I have to disagree on the flywheel bolt, Bandit. I got one and it appears to be a high quality bolt and it worked fine for me. And I used a air impact on it. That is the cat's meow. You don't have to hold the flywheel with anything other than one hand and let the wrench rattle for a couple of seconds. I think I did use a strap wrench for torquing it back tho.
The M14x1.5 is a lot more common bolt over here. You should be able to get it from Ace Hardware. I would not use the front axle either, except in a dire emergency. The M20 bolt is very hard to find here. I looked at several fastener shops and none had it in stock.
Blue Fox
1983 GL650I, 79-CX500C, 1980 CX500C, 82-GL500I, 82-GL1100, 76-CB550, 81-CB750C, 73-CB350F, 71-CT90,
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06-09-2010, 8:33 PM
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philbrewer
Joined on 04-26-2010
Detroit, MI
Posts 155
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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Used the Subaru bolt to remove flywheel it worked great. Here are the pics of the broken cam chain tensioner bolt. I can barely see it, but can tell it snapped just where the threads start in the hole:
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<br>
-->
1978 cx500
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06-09-2010, 8:56 PM
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Blindstitch
Joined on 03-14-2009
Greenfield Wisconsin
Posts 9,861
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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Do you have a dremel? If slow try to slot it a bit so you can get a small flat head screwdriver in there.
If you don't have a dremel already they are worth it. I use mine a lot now.
1979 CX500 Supertanker
ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier.
Quick Reference
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06-09-2010, 9:06 PM
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philbrewer
Joined on 04-26-2010
Detroit, MI
Posts 155
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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I have one, but slotting it would be tough, that is a small space, like open heart surgery.
1978 cx500
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06-10-2010, 2:14 AM
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spanish bandit
Joined on 02-12-2009
southern spain
Posts 5,010
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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| Blue fox wrote: | I have to disagree on the flywheel bolt, Bandit. I got one and it appears to be a high quality bolt and it worked fine for me. And I used a air impact on it. That is the cat's meow. You don't have to hold the flywheel with anything other than one hand and let the wrench rattle for a couple of seconds. I think I did use a strap wrench for torquing it back tho.
The M14x1.5 is a lot more common bolt over here. You should be able to get it from Ace Hardware. I would not use the front axle either, except in a dire emergency. The M20 bolt is very hard to find here. I looked at several fastener shops and none had it in stock.
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hi blue,i know we dont often have differing opinions[lol]
this is copied from another recent thread.............
Interesting...I have been trying to remove the flywheel on my '78
(Maggie) and I ended up stripping out the threads on the oil pan bolt I
bought! I just picked up a M20 x 1.5 - 50mm bolt from my local
"Fastenal" store here in the big city.
i know those bolts can be hard to trace,i used a tractor parts supplier.........buy it once,a tool for ever
when i feel the need,i do it,llego,ve 60,s
-----------------------------
2008.1982 honda gli silverwing [uk model ]
2010.1981 honda gli silverwing [uk model ]
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06-10-2010, 6:08 AM
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DaveF
Joined on 06-11-2008
Lawrenceville, GA
Posts 1,232
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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Slotting the stud with a dremel tool does sound like the best approach. It is important to have a bit that will easily cut into the stud material. Diamond bits will make cutting much easier and more accurate.
[Edit: Most likely this bolt was snapped when over-tightened as opposed to it snapping upon attempted removal. It is not exposed to excessive heat like an exhaust stud, and it is not exposed to coolant, so it is unlikely to be corroded in place. It should unscrew with minimal effort once there is something to grip.]
My Web Site
1982 GL500
1983 GL650
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06-10-2010, 6:18 AM
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Blue fox
Joined on 04-18-2008
COLUMBIA, MISSOURI
Posts 1,533
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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That little bugger is way down in there. As Dave said, you may be able to do a little slotting with a diamond point, but it will be slow going. I think you are maybe back to the drilling and easy out. The big trick is to center punch the broken bolt exactly in the center, then I would try a left hand bit about half the size of the bolt to start with. You may get lucky and it will back itself out with that. You can always go up in size and use the Easy Out. If you drill too big, the Easy Out becomes a wedge when you drive it in and makes the broken stud even harder to turn.
Blue Fox
1983 GL650I, 79-CX500C, 1980 CX500C, 82-GL500I, 82-GL1100, 76-CB550, 81-CB750C, 73-CB350F, 71-CT90,
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06-10-2010, 8:26 AM
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philbrewer
Joined on 04-26-2010
Detroit, MI
Posts 155
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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Pain in the butt. I have easy outs at home so I'll be attempting the surgery tonight or tomorrow. I'll take a few pics and let you guys know the outcome. I'll need a lot of light and a steady hand.
Oh it broke from over tightening. Do these bolts have a tendency to brake when removing? If so that scares me because I have to remove the good one from my donor.
1978 cx500
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06-10-2010, 9:02 AM
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ChopperCharles
Joined on 02-18-2006
Chapel Hill, NC
Posts 613
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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That is water damage on the cam chain sprocket... if it's that bad, I'd inspect the cam very carefully. You need to ensure that the surface that the oil seal rides on is smooth and both rust-free and pit-free. Otherwise you'll be transplanting camshafts as well.
Charles.
87 TW200 (STOLEN! Help me find it!)
93 EX500 Ninja Street Fighter Project
84 V65 Magna (daily rider)
75 GL1000 (in pieces)
79 CX500 Deluxe Street Fighter Project
81 GL500 Interstate Restoration Project
Location: Durham, NC
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06-10-2010, 9:22 AM
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Blindstitch
Joined on 03-14-2009
Greenfield Wisconsin
Posts 9,861
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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Usually the bolts are at max torque around 8 pounds. It's possible that it was never adjusted or not in many years that it may have slightly fused to the block.
1979 CX500 Supertanker
ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier.
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06-10-2010, 9:22 AM
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philbrewer
Joined on 04-26-2010
Detroit, MI
Posts 155
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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Yea I noticed that, and will be inspecting further as I progress along.
1978 cx500
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06-10-2010, 9:53 AM
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DougD
Joined on 05-29-2009
Dundas Ontario Age 43
Posts 201
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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Has anybody tried the Mig Welder Blob technique to get the bolt out? Should be an easy application since the weld won't stick to the aluminum.
I've also done this on steel parts making a copper shield so it won't stick.
http://www.thebugshop.org/bsfqtool.htm
80 CX500 Deluxe - Sold
86 Interceptor 500
93 Kawi Concours
81 GL500 - The Silver Thing, gone but not forgotten
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06-11-2010, 1:12 PM
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philbrewer
Joined on 04-26-2010
Detroit, MI
Posts 155
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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So I got the broken bolt out. Here is a list of items I had to use:
1. Stick welder
2. Duct Tape
3. Floor Jack
4. 12" Steel Pipe
5. Q-tip
:P Just kidding, it wasnt even stuck in the hole, used a small screw driver and out it came!
1978 cx500
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06-11-2010, 4:43 PM
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Blue fox
Joined on 04-18-2008
COLUMBIA, MISSOURI
Posts 1,533
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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I was hoping it wasn't tight in there. Good job, sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't.
Blue Fox
1983 GL650I, 79-CX500C, 1980 CX500C, 82-GL500I, 82-GL1100, 76-CB550, 81-CB750C, 73-CB350F, 71-CT90,
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06-24-2010, 7:48 PM
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philbrewer
Joined on 04-26-2010
Detroit, MI
Posts 155
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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Ok I have my parts ordered for the cam chain (gaskets/seals/o rings). Does anyone have and information, tips, or tricks for reinstall?
1978 cx500
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06-25-2010, 11:36 PM
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Blindstitch
Joined on 03-14-2009
Greenfield Wisconsin
Posts 9,861
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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| philbrewer wrote: | Ok I have my parts ordered for the cam chain (gaskets/seals/o rings). Does anyone have and information, tips, or tricks for reinstall?
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Take your time and do a good job.
1979 CX500 Supertanker
ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier.
Quick Reference
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06-26-2010, 11:25 AM
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spanish bandit
Joined on 02-12-2009
southern spain
Posts 5,010
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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Yesterday, 10:45 PM
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philbrewer
Joined on 04-26-2010
Detroit, MI
Posts 155
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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Got the new chain in. Have a question about gaskets:
Should I be using a gasket sealer when installing the new gaskets?
1978 cx500
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Today, 12:49 AM
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Blindstitch
Joined on 03-14-2009
Greenfield Wisconsin
Posts 9,861
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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Today, 12:57 AM
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Shep
Joined on 01-30-2007
UK.2x1980CX500A
Posts 7,647
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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Today, 1:13 AM
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spanish bandit
Joined on 02-12-2009
southern spain
Posts 5,010
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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| philbrewer wrote: | Got the new chain in. Have a question about gaskets:
Should I be using a gasket sealer when installing the new gaskets?
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ill take this stand......you do not want an oil leak from that rear gasket after you refit the engine..you will be taking it back out again.
when i did mine,i de-greased the area,s, smeared [thinly] liquid gasket to both surfaces evenly,let it go off[i hour] then brought it all to-gether.......result..no leaks
when i feel the need,i do it,llego,ve 60,s
-----------------------------
2008.1982 honda gli silverwing [uk model ]
2010.1981 honda gli silverwing [uk model ]
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Today, 7:23 AM
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philbrewer
Joined on 04-26-2010
Detroit, MI
Posts 155
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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My main concern is the rear, front, clutch, and tach gaskets. From what I read I should smear a slight amount of blue sealer. If I am wrong please let me know, I'll be closing the engine up tonight.
1978 cx500
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Today, 12:13 PM
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Blindstitch
Joined on 03-14-2009
Greenfield Wisconsin
Posts 9,861
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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If you buy honda gaskets and take your time they already have a thin layer of adhesive on them.
The trick is clean, clean, clean, take a break, and clean some more.
1979 CX500 Supertanker
ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier.
Quick Reference
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Today, 1:36 PM
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philbrewer
Joined on 04-26-2010
Detroit, MI
Posts 155
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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I've stripped all the old gasket material off with wd40. What else can I use for a cleaner/degreaser that I may have laying around the house? Alcohol?
1978 cx500
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Today, 2:18 PM
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philbrewer
Joined on 04-26-2010
Detroit, MI
Posts 155
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Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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I found some brake cleaner. I'll use that to prep the surfaces.
1978 cx500
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Honda CX500 & G... » CX500 GL500 Tra... » General Discuss... » Re: Cam chain swap.......need some thoughts
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