Honda CX500 & GL500 Forum

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01-07-2008, 7:22 AM razorboy Joined on 01-01-2008 Ojai, CA Posts 96 Tapered Steering Head Bearings Has anyone out there converted their steering head bearings over to tapered - ala All Balls Racing? I had planned to do this on the SWing and after I dropped the lower part of the triple clamp last night and shot ball bearings all over my floor, I guess its a necessity now! Does anyone have a PN for the kit thats required for the Silverwing? Much appreciated Bernie 1982 Honda GL500 Silverwing (Kermit)    Report

01-07-2008, 9:14 AM Reg in Bristol Joined on 03-11-2006 Bristol UK Posts 782 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings Bernie Over here its a job that most of us do as a matter of course Its an aftermarket rather than a Honda part, but i'm sure some of the guys your side of the pond  can point out a source for them The 'Mongrel' is on the road 78 frame, ZAB gubbins, 82 'TI' motor, Suzuki clocks, MZ screen and gaiters, Kawasaki master cylinder, BMW horns DIY wiring and all thrown together with a fanatical inattention to detail :-)    Report

01-07-2008, 9:22 AM Reg in Bristol Joined on 03-11-2006 Bristol UK Posts 782 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings Just did a search on the UK club site AFAIK the same bearings are used across the range of models and I came across this reference TAPERED HEAD RACE BEARING SET reference SSH 750. SIZES (in mm) 48.5 X 26 X 15 & 50 X 30 X 14.5 As a guideline, they usually cost around 25-30 GB Pounds a set HTH The 'Mongrel' is on the road 78 frame, ZAB gubbins, 82 'TI' motor, Suzuki clocks, MZ screen and gaiters, Kawasaki master cylinder, BMW horns DIY wiring and all thrown together with a fanatical inattention to detail :-)    Report

01-07-2008, 11:41 AM chip Joined on 03-15-2006 Woodford, VA Posts 194 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings From Dennis Kirk, the part number is :   121431         Price ( in October when I purchased mine ):    $40.99    Report

01-07-2008, 3:05 PM razorboy Joined on 01-01-2008 Ojai, CA Posts 96 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings Thanx for the help guys.........much appreciated Bernie 1982 Honda GL500 Silverwing (Kermit)    Report

01-07-2008, 6:58 PM Da Bear Joined on 12-31-2007 Portland, Oregon Posts 124 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings Had my Mech. do them on my first GL500I, when the standard ball bearings failed. Had them put on the current GL the first time it went into the shop. They've been in there for 11 years wthout a problem. I can ask my Mech for the info if you can't find them. Da Bear Da Bear 82 GL500I She Hasta    Report

01-08-2008, 7:53 AM Reg in Bristol Joined on 03-11-2006 Bristol UK Posts 782 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings Bernie FYI Its usually wise to check the bearings a wee while after riding around with them fitted I've heard of of some folk getting some steering problems after a while which was due to the bearings 'setlling'. After some secondary adjustment, all was well It doesnt always happen, but it pays to check The 'Mongrel' is on the road 78 frame, ZAB gubbins, 82 'TI' motor, Suzuki clocks, MZ screen and gaiters, Kawasaki master cylinder, BMW horns DIY wiring and all thrown together with a fanatical inattention to detail :-)    Report

01-08-2008, 6:42 PM DaveNearAtlanta Joined on 03-03-2006 Lawrenceville, GA Posts 500 Tapered Steering Head Bearing Installation Issues A few years ago, one of the now-offline CX/GL forums had a thread started by a Honda mechanic where he identified a problem with the installation of aftermarket tapered steering head bearings.  The issue was not the bearings themselves (everyone acknowledges they are a good thing), but with the serrated edge at the underside of the steering stem adjuster nut. This edge does not match the flat surface of the upper tapered bearing. Consequently, the adjustment can shift and become sloppy.  Not good. Note the upper tapered roller bearing sits higher in the steering head than the OEM stock ball bearing, resulting in fewer threads engaged when the adjuster nut is set.  This is undesirable because the number of threads engaged become very few. One way to correct the unstable adjustment problem is to install a Machinery Bushing between the tapered bearing and the adjuster nut.  A one inch 14 gauge machinery bushing, part number 33445, from Fastenal.com is very close to the needed size.  After being trimmed with a dremel tool to fit, this is what it looks like. After being trimmed, the fit should be snug. The thickness of the bushing is just enough to reliably prevent the adjuster nut serrations from contacting the tapered bearing.  It does slightly reduce the amount of steering stem threads engaged in the adjuster nut even further but I believe it is a worthwhile tradeoff.  The contact between the adjuster nut and the tapered bearing is now solid and the likelihood of the adjustment shifting is greatly reduced. My Web Site 1982 GL500 1983 GL650 This User ID is no longer used. DaveF is my new User ID.    Report

01-09-2008, 2:56 PM DaWei Joined on 11-25-2006 Northfield, Atlantic County, NJ Posts 589 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearing Installation Issues How about dremelling (?) the serrated edge to remove the interference and increase the thread contact? Dave in NJ '80 CX500 C - needs Triple Bypass - but TITLED! '78 CX500 - Working on NJ DMV Title Where's the BIRTH CERTIFICATE?    Report

01-09-2008, 3:38 PM LonEagle Joined on 05-02-2007 Minneapolis, Minnesota Posts 201 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearing Installation Issues I noticed myself when I put in the tapers, that they sat a little higher.  I worried that I had swapped the races because of that issue! I probably overtightened my steering head because of that too.  Not sure.  Was going to look at it in the spring when the weather gets nice enough to ride again.    Report

01-09-2008, 5:04 PM DaveNearAtlanta Joined on 03-03-2006 Lawrenceville, GA Posts 500 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearing Installation Issues  DaWei wrote: How about dremelling (?) the serrated edge to remove the interference and increase the thread contact? That may work. The two parts of the adjuster nut are swaged together here so there is some risk it could come apart if too much material is removed.  So it would be a good idea to have a spare on hand just in case. Even if the interference is removed, it is still advantageous to have something like the machinery bushing installed to fill the void and make solid contact with the bearing.  A thinner bushing could be used, though. My Web Site 1982 GL500 1983 GL650 This User ID is no longer used. DaveF is my new User ID.    Report

01-09-2008, 5:37 PM DaveNearAtlanta Joined on 03-03-2006 Lawrenceville, GA Posts 500 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearing Installation Issues Another issue, at least for me, is the dust seal that came with the kit.  It seemed to bind and prevented the steering stem from turning freely.  Maybe this would not be noticed with the front end sitting on the ground and supporting weight, but I was not comfortable with the way it felt.  So I chose not to install it.  I can't imagine too much dirt and crud getting up in there with the type of riding I normally do, and I don't mind cleaning and regreasing the bearings after several years of hard riding.  This would be a good task to combine with fork seal replacement. Here is the spacer washer and lower bearing configuration I finally settled on.  The spacer used is the one from the kit approximately 0.100 inches thick. With this configuration, the vertical position of the steering stem is essentially unchanged from the original as indicated by where the steering stops line up. The bike is a GL500I.  The fit may be different for other models. The kit used was the All Balls number 22-1011.  I purchased mine from Chaparral, and the current price listed there is about $38. My Web Site 1982 GL500 1983 GL650 This User ID is no longer used. DaveF is my new User ID.    Report

01-10-2008, 3:07 AM Henry Joined on 07-22-2007 Wellington, Fl Posts 17 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings I've actually just installed the taperd bearings in my '81 cx500d. The binding was evident and I assumed that it would go away with some miles on the bike.  However there was tightness in the steering which made it a bit unsafe in my opinion so I loosend up the adj. nut a bit to free it up. Everything seedmed fine but now I have the bike apart again and I can see to much slop in the bearing. Now I can tighten it up properly. Henry    Report

01-10-2008, 6:52 AM trev_h Joined on 09-11-2006 stafford, United Kingdom Posts 200 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings Thanks Dave, I have to change some head bearings soon and found that information useful. I'll also check out my other bike which already has them fitted and has needed adjustment. cx 650/500c special, 78 500z, 94 bmw k75rt    Report

01-10-2008, 2:02 PM HotFoot Joined on 09-17-2007 SW Lower Michigan, USA Posts 290 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings I installed the All Balls bearings also. And had the same binding due to the seal. The lower bearing assembly was a real tight fit on the lower tree. I was concerned that it might break. The OEM race was tight also and had to be cut/slotted with a dremel so I could whack it with a chisel. It was not rusted...just real tight. Rather than take the chance of buggering things up by taking it back apart I trimmed off one of the lips of the double lipped seal with a sharp razor blade. No blood produced and binding is much less. Instructions that came with the bearings are a bit vague and a couple of simple line drawings would have helped. Also hints on how tight to cinch things down would have been useful. I just assumed it was appropriate to tighten down until there is no play and then just a hair more. And I assume it would be a good idea to check that area after the first few miles of riding. And probably again not too long after that. Hoppy '80 CX500 Deluxe (Roadworthy) '79 CX500 Custom (Parts)    Report

01-11-2008, 2:35 AM Len in PA Joined on 03-31-2006 Bristol, PA Posts 485 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings Dave, thanx for mentioning that bushing! When I upgraded my bearings in the early nineties, I remember the kit came with such a part and I wondered where it went. I will soon be replacing my fairing, so I will look in there. Steering is fine, maybe I lucked out. Great photos! Len '82 GL500i...nearing 100,000 miles    Report

01-12-2008, 4:55 AM DaveNearAtlanta Joined on 03-03-2006 Lawrenceville, GA Posts 500 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings  HotFoot wrote: ...Instructions that came with the bearings are a bit vague and a couple of simple line drawings would have helped. Also hints on how tight to cinch things down would have been useful. I just assumed it was appropriate to tighten down until there is no play and then just a hair more... More detailed instructions in the kit would have been helpful, although the Honda GL shop manual has this info: "Install the adjuster nut in the frame neck and tighten it until snug against the top cone race.  Then, back it out 1/8 turn.  Make sure that there is no vertical movement and that the stem rotates freely." It was during this "stem rotates freely" check that the excessive seal drag was discovered. The shop manual shows a special pin spanner tool being used with the adjuster nut, but since the nut is only tightened to "snug" at most this tool is not needed.  I used some slip-joint channel lock pliers. Note the upper stem nut, located above the fork bridge, is torqued to 90-120 N-m but a regular socket fits it. My Web Site 1982 GL500 1983 GL650 This User ID is no longer used. DaveF is my new User ID.    Report

06-25-2008, 8:48 AM razorboy Joined on 01-01-2008 Ojai, CA Posts 96 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings Hey Guys, Finally getting around to doing some work on Kermit. I purchased the All Balls kit and took a look at things last night. I checked the serrated adjuster nut against the bearing surface last night and although a tight fit, it appears that the bearing is going to settle itself inside the serrated surface? I may take a sanding drum to go around the inside of the serrated surface to allow a little more tolerance but for sure, the bearing surface is not sitting under the edges themselves. The instructions are vague but I think I understand where they are taking me. The problem is that by the time I get the lower race off the stem, there won't be much left to it unless I get lucky? Since I do not have the appropriate tools to pull the race off, I am going to have to get at it with a chisel and hammer to whack it off the stem. Bernie 1982 Honda GL500 Silverwing (Kermit)    Report

01-24-2009, 11:30 AM tschraeder Joined on 12-07-2008 Beverly Hills, MI Posts 41 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings I'm getting into the front end work on the 82 GL500I that I purchased in November. First of all, this forum is a Godsend. Without it, I don't think I would have made the purchase, and I certainly wouldn't be as positive about diving into the work. Well I picked up this posting because I'm finishing disassembly on the steering head. The first problem is getting the darn bottom cone race out of the head pipe. After reading this post, the Clymer manual and the Honda shop manual, I think I understand what I'm supposed to do, but my home made hardwood drift just isn't making the darn thing budge. Even after heating the steering tube, I've been slamming away pretty hard, but just splitting the wood. Anyone have any hints for success without Honda "Ball Race Remover/Installer 07946-3710400? The bearing kit (121431 from Dennis Kirk - 22-1011 from All Balls) came in today and was also a bit of a surprise. I believe I understand the thickness issues the instuctions reference (one side of a 3" x 4" paper) to insure the new bearings take the same height as the old. But the other side of that piece of paper shows before and after diagrams with dimensions for the "spanner nut." This has me scratching my head. Apparently the idea is to modify your spanner nut as shown in the diagrams to allow for correct fitment of the bearings. I've looked at the parts I've removed and they don't look like the diagrams. None of the manuals or the online parts fiches show a part named "Spanner Nut." So I need help on these two fronts. How do I get the lower/bottom cone race out of the steering tube? What the heck is All Balls talking about when they say "Spanner Nut" and should I care? 1 - 82 GL500I - Up and runnin' 1 - 82 GL500I - Frame and Pieces 1 - 81 GL500 - In need of a lot of love    Report

01-24-2009, 7:56 PM Blue fox Joined on 04-18-2008 COLUMBIA, MISSOURI Posts 1,533 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings I am getting ready to replace my steering bearings in my CX too.  I would suppose that you would need to use a metal drift to be able to transmit enough force to drive the races out.  I have not tried yet, so I may be in the same shape as you shortly.  Has anyone ever tried the bearings from Pyramid Parts over in the UK?  They have much better pricing, but I don't know about the quality.   Blue Fox 1983 GL650I, 79-CX500C, 1980 CX500C, 82-GL500I, 82-GL1100, 76-CB550, 81-CB750C, 73-CB350F, 71-CT90,    Report

01-25-2009, 5:33 AM DaveF Joined on 06-11-2008 Lawrenceville, GA Posts 1,232 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings I use a brass drift.  It was purchased at Northern Tool several years ago but any of the major discount tool chains should have something similar. Note the use of vise grips to keep from getting a mashed thumb when the race breaks free. All Balls was made aware of the fit problems described above, and directed to this thread in particular.  A GL500 triple tree and a steering head cut from a parts bike frame were sent to them so they could see the problem first-hand.  I have not seen an All Balls kit since then, but it is my understanding their solution to the problem is to have the adjuster nut (spanner nut) machined. My Web Site 1982 GL500 1983 GL650    Report

01-25-2009, 11:01 AM tschraeder Joined on 12-07-2008 Beverly Hills, MI Posts 41 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings Dave - Thanks for the guidance.  I guess hardwood will not be enough. Do you have a diameter or part number on the brass drift?  The vice grips are a good idea too (enough scars on the hands as is.) I'm new to this, but I'll attach scans showing the All Balls Instruction sheet and diagram - might be helpful or the next guy starting this project. http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt90/closehauled51/SteeringBearingInstructionText.jpg http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt90/closehauled51/SteeringBearingInstructionDiagram.jpg 1 - 82 GL500I - Up and runnin' 1 - 82 GL500I - Frame and Pieces 1 - 81 GL500 - In need of a lot of love    Report

01-25-2009, 1:39 PM George in Indiana Joined on 03-03-2006 Posts 954 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings I have to ask... What is the advantage of tapered bearings over the stock originals? Are the originals no longer available? Do the All Balls provide incredible day/night difference in handling? From reading this thread, it appears All Balls is an ill fitting aftermarket item that has to be "hacked" in. End results are less threads being used, no dust seal and binding situations or looseness. This is an improvement over stock how? CX500 TURBO CX650 TURBO '04 GSX1300R Hayabusa    Report

01-25-2009, 2:19 PM Blue fox Joined on 04-18-2008 COLUMBIA, MISSOURI Posts 1,533 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings I believe there was a thread somewhere around the middle of Sept by Shaggy referring to this same issue.  The consensus then was that the Pyramid Parts ones, didn't need modification, and a triple tree was shipped to All Balls for their investigation into the problem.  The problem may be solved now by All Balls, but I don't know for sure.  I ordered a set from Pyramid Parts yesterday and they billed my Pay Pal account for $20.50, including shipping.  I don't know if this was a mistake on their part, the invoice said $30.96 with shipping, or is the British Pound exchange rate doing this?  Anyhow, I thought that was a hellva deal if they are decent.  I'll report back when I get them.  I think Mildhog ordered some of these last fall too, but he was concerned that there was no instructions included. Blue Fox 1983 GL650I, 79-CX500C, 1980 CX500C, 82-GL500I, 82-GL1100, 76-CB550, 81-CB750C, 73-CB350F, 71-CT90,    Report

01-26-2009, 8:38 AM tschraeder Joined on 12-07-2008 Beverly Hills, MI Posts 41 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings For anyone working on the Steeering Head Bearings (82 GL500I at least) The best possible drift to remove the bottom cone race from the steering tube has to be a piece of 1 1/4" pipe - standard stuff, measured by inside diameter. Stopped by Home Depot, did a tight measurement on a lot of pipe and fitting sizes and the 1 1/4" was a frighteningly good fit.  It mic'd out at 1.684 inches (O.D) and the narrowest dimension inside the tube was 1.697 inches.  The pipe slid into the tube with almost no play.  About a half dozen solid wraps with a 16 oz. hammer and the cone popped right out. That completed the disassembly of the front end.  Now onto the refits and rebuilds - forks, calipers, master cylinder, wheel bearings.  Then onto the rear end, the engine, the exhaust, and the cosmetics.  Good thing spring is so distant. I hope this will help someone down the line. 1 - 82 GL500I - Up and runnin' 1 - 82 GL500I - Frame and Pieces 1 - 81 GL500 - In need of a lot of love    Report

09-24-2009, 12:51 PM ladyeclectic Joined on 04-07-2009 Hanford, CA Posts 323 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings quoting "George in Indiana": I have to ask... What is the advantage of tapered bearings over the stock originals? Are the originals no longer available? Do the All Balls provide incredible day/night difference in handling? From reading this thread, it appears All Balls is an ill fitting aftermarket item that has to be "hacked" in. End results are less threads being used, no dust seal and binding situations or looseness. This is an improvement over stock how? I'm curious about this as well. I'm swapping the forks of my GL with those of a GLi I bought. I figured while they were off I'd repack the steering bearings, but the boy suggested I look into the tapered Alls Balls bearing sets. From what I've read on this thread, though, should I just stay with the ones I have now? Seems a lot of work for something that doesn't seem like it would give any additional performance enhancement (actually seems to make it worse unless you have a machine shop)... Sarah from Cali '81 Honda GL500 (Mah seksay beast) '73 Ford Maverick    Report

09-24-2009, 4:40 PM Shep Joined on 01-30-2007 UK.2x1980CX500A Posts 7,647 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings I have old style all ball bearing races and a tapered roller bearing kits between my CX.I don't know what an,"All balls"tapered roller kit is. Tapered roller bearing kits over hear use rollers,not ball bearings. Tapered roller kits are a much better design than the older ball and race setup as they are not prone to race wear and delves and ovality or collapsing of the ball bearings. Having said that correctly maintained ball bearing kits are just as usable and if in good condition e.g the ball bearings are good and there are no pits/delves or damage to the races then I see no need to replace them and will keep the set I have in that CX until they show signs of weakness.               In practical riding I cannot see a great deal of difference between the two as both my CX steering is positive,free moving and secure and pass our quite strict MOT((Ministry Of Transport) Road Worthiness Certificate.To give you an idea of how strict this test can be if the bike is at idle and the bars are turned from lock-to-lock and the engine speed varies because of bad cable routing/sticky cables the bikes can be failed.The same applies to the steering bearings inasmuch as even one dead spot or any looseness,play or grittiness and again it can be failed. My 10 penn'th. HTH :) My Music http://www.reverbnation.com/pauldouglas/ Join Just In Case :) http://globalcxglvtwins.hostingdelivered.com/ Id quot circumiret, circumveniat    Report

09-24-2009, 4:58 PM DaveF Joined on 06-11-2008 Lawrenceville, GA Posts 1,232 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings  Shep wrote: ...I don't know what an,"All balls"tapered roller kit is.... All Balls is the brand name sold by most major motorcycle parts dealers in the States.  Shep wrote: ....Tapered roller kits are a much better design than the older ball and race setup as they are not prone to race wear and delves and ovality or collapsing of the ball bearings... Agreed. My Web Site 1982 GL500 1983 GL650    Report

09-24-2009, 5:04 PM Shep Joined on 01-30-2007 UK.2x1980CX500A Posts 7,647 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings  Shep wrote: ...I don't know what an,"All balls"tapered roller kit is.... All Balls is the brand name sold by most major motorcycle parts dealers in the States. Once again Thanks Dave.Two nations divided by a common language My Music http://www.reverbnation.com/pauldouglas/ Join Just In Case :) http://globalcxglvtwins.hostingdelivered.com/ Id quot circumiret, circumveniat    Report

10-20-2009, 6:34 AM Retroben Joined on 08-13-2009 Akron, OH Posts 51 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings Had some notching in my steering, which remained after tightening the steering head to specs. I bought the Pyramid bearing set. Relatively quick delivery and good price. Now I gotta put the darn things on. I have the Honda service manual I downloaded off one of the links here. I am a novice at motorcycle mechanics, so I need really, really simple instructions. Should have bought the Haynes before I started this, I guess. Meanwhile the Honda manual has me going through such contortions as taking apart every electrical connector inside the headlight case, removing all the levers from the handlebars, etc. Can't some of this stuff stay assembled during this operation, just loosened and/or dropped out of the way? And common sense tells me I have to remove the front wheel - but that little piece of information is not in the "step-by-step" instructions.. Can anybody give me the quick n' dirty on what has to be removed, and what doesn't necessarily? Thanks in advance. This site is an amazing resource. Ben '81 GL500 Silverwing    Report

10-20-2009, 6:42 AM spanish bandit Joined on 02-12-2009 southern spain Posts 5,010 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings  Retroben wrote: Had some notching in my steering, which remained after tightening the steering head to specs. I bought the Pyramid bearing set. Relatively quick delivery and good price. Now I gotta put the darn things on. I have the Honda service manual I downloaded off one of the links here. I am a novice at motorcycle mechanics, so I need really, really simple instructions. Should have bought the Haynes before I started this, I guess. Meanwhile the Honda manual has me going through such contortions as taking apart every electrical connector inside the headlight case, removing all the levers from the handlebars, etc. Can't some of this stuff stay assembled during this operation, just loosened and/or dropped out of the way? And common sense tells me I have to remove the front wheel - but that little piece of information is not in the "step-by-step" instructions.. Can anybody give me the quick n' dirty on what has to be removed, and what doesn't necessarily? Thanks in advance. This site is an amazing resource. Ben heres some info for you... http://choppercharles.com/cs/forums/88078/%20http://choppercharles.com/cs/forums/26029/ShowPost.aspx http://choppercharles.com/cs/forums/96617/ShowPost.aspx when i feel the need,i do it,llego,ve 60,s ----------------------------- 2008.1982 honda gli silverwing [uk model ] 2010.1981 honda gli silverwing [uk model ]    Report

10-20-2009, 7:29 AM bri-guy-ga Joined on 06-04-2008 Powder Springs, GA Posts 702 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings Is there really that much advantage to going with the tapered bearings?  From what I am reading there is some "rigging" involved.  The stock ones on my '82 GL500 seem fine, but will be getting a thorough going over this winter due to the flood.  I was thinking of just cleaning and re-greasing the needle ones.  The idea of having minimal thread engagement for the triple tree doesn't seem like a good idea to me. 1982 GL500i (currently being rebuilt from ground up) NO! Try not. Do or do not do. There is no try - Yoda    Report

10-20-2009, 10:06 AM RichNCT Joined on 03-02-2006 Connecticut, USA Posts 3,463 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings I believe the stock bearings are ball bearings, not needle.  The needle bearings are in the starter clutch. Refueling on The James Bay Road, 2009 Born to be relatively wild (for a grampa x 3) GL650I, CX650E, CX650T    Report

10-20-2009, 2:05 PM bri-guy-ga Joined on 06-04-2008 Powder Springs, GA Posts 702 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings Either way is there really that much of an improvement in changing? 1982 GL500i (currently being rebuilt from ground up) NO! Try not. Do or do not do. There is no try - Yoda    Report

10-20-2009, 3:54 PM Retroben Joined on 08-13-2009 Akron, OH Posts 51 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings Here's my reasoning, and I welcome anybody to chime in. First, why I'm changing them in general: I hadn't been on a motorcycle in 25 years, bought my Silverwing a couple months ago (when I joined the forum) and started riding very-very careful-like. Bought new tires right away, Dunlops. I love the bike generally, but I have been having trouble cornering - not at high speeds either. If there's any bumps in a curve, I feel like I'm going down. Much squirrelier than I'd expect in wind or on grooved pavement too. I was ready to blame it all on my rusty-to-nonexistent riding skills, but I have ridden and worked on bicycles for years, and this kind of handling problem on bicycles points to headset adjustment/wear problems. So next I checked the torque on the steering head bearing on the SW and noticed it was loose (about 45lbs) and the steering had a distinct notch at center, more pronounced when turning the bars to the right. I tightened to spec, but the notch remained. This to me means a damaged race. Betcha I'll see a nice notch when I get it apart. Anyway I hope changing the bearings improves the handling, because if not, I'm going to go take a novice rider's course. Why change to a roller bearing? I'd take a roller bearing over a ball bearing any day in most applications. Might be my imagination, but they seem to roll smoother, wear more evenly and last longer than balls in a race. And if you ever have to disassemble, you don't get pesky little greasy balls flying all over the place '81 GL500 Silverwing    Report

10-20-2009, 3:57 PM Retroben Joined on 08-13-2009 Akron, OH Posts 51 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings Bandit, your first link gives me "bad request". '81 GL500 Silverwing    Report

10-20-2009, 6:22 PM Randall-in-Mpls Joined on 07-06-2007 Minneapolis, MN Posts 2,629 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings  Retroben wrote: .. I have been having trouble cornering - not at high speeds either. If there's any bumps in a curve, I feel like I'm going down. You may also see improvement by adding a fork brace.  I installed one a couple weeks ago, and it's like riding a different bike.  I don't even feel bumps in corners anymore. R '78 CX500 - Black Maggot --> Green Grub / Yellow Grub / Red Grub ???    Report

10-20-2009, 6:36 PM Blindstitch Joined on 03-14-2009 Greenfield Wisconsin Posts 9,863 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings Tapered bearings make steering smoother and for $30 it is well worth the mess of removing the forks to install over the 37 ball bearings. 1979 CX500 Supertanker ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier. Quick Reference    Report

10-20-2009, 8:24 PM Retroben Joined on 08-13-2009 Akron, OH Posts 51 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings Sheesh, got it almost apart, still need to drive out the bottom ball race (gonna go buy an iron pipe nipple for that tomorrow, 1-1/4" if I correctly understood the thread above) and get the cone race off the triple tree (cold chisel for that, I guess). About the Pyramid bearing sets. They do seem to be made to fit without any spacers or grinding required, but I'll confirm that once they're on. Ordered both the Clymer and the Haynes today off the *bay.  Dunno what possessed me to start this job without them. '81 GL500 Silverwing    Report

10-20-2009, 8:54 PM Blindstitch Joined on 03-14-2009 Greenfield Wisconsin Posts 9,863 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings I don't have any spacers in mine and it worked fine. I still have to go back and do a final adjustment. 1979 CX500 Supertanker ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier. Quick Reference    Report

10-21-2009, 9:44 AM Retroben Joined on 08-13-2009 Akron, OH Posts 51 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings Now I'm getting downright discouraged. Would have been nice if Pyramid would have put some instructions in with the bearings Anyway, after guessing my way through the disassembly process, I got the bearings all fitted. When I mounted the triple, I realized the rubber seal at the bottom was rubbing the frame. I refitted without the seal and the frame rubs the tree, meaning the new bearing set is not tall enough, or sitting too low on the stem. So I guess this means a spacer is in fact needed for this assembly to work properly. Now I have to hammer the new bearing off the stem, fit a washer, and hope for the best. '81 GL500 Silverwing    Report

10-21-2009, 10:48 AM bri-guy-ga Joined on 06-04-2008 Powder Springs, GA Posts 702 Re: Tapered Steering Head Bearings Is exactly as I feared.  Some sort of make-shift fix is necessary.  Think I will stay with factory unless the races are shot.  I have enough to do to repair the bike after the flood than make something work. 1982 GL500i (currently being rebuilt from ground up) NO! Try not. Do or do not do. There is no try - Yoda    Report

10-21-2009, 5:16 PM Retroben Joined on 08-13-2009 Akron, OH Posts 51 Change of heart My high hopes for the whole "roller bearing upgrade" have gone right down the toilet. First off, I admit I'm a novice. I can generally diagnose problems with written guidance, follow directions and replace things. I don't have my own machine shop. I have mostly just simple maintenance tools. So maybe if I were a more experienced mechanic I would have seen this all coming. But this is NOT a simple job, daunting if only because of all the wires and cables you have to disconnect and then re-route in the right places. Spaghetti. My old ball races were indeed shot - obvious pits worn where the balls sat. Could have just ordered factory and I'd be back on the road already. Instead I ordered the Pyramid, which was supposed to be an easy swap because of the way the top bearing was made to fit inside the serrations in the adjuster nut.. Didn't mind the week wait for delivery (not bad from the UK I guess). No instructions included, and the link to more product info on their website is dead. All the more reason to think this would be easy, right? I thought I was buying a "direct swap" bearing kit. However, after installation with the factory dust seal in place, I noted some binding. Turns out the frame was riding on the rubber seal, not on the bearing.  Took out the dust seal, and you can get the bearing to seat lightly in the race, but once you tighten down the steering head (snug and back off 1/8), the frame rubs on the triple and it won't even turn to the stops. So the solution is a shim - just 1mm or so -  on the steering stem between the thin factory washer (holds the dust seal in place) and the lower bearing, 'Course, the new bearing was already installed, so I had to chisel it back off. Got it off, but meanwhile popped and distorted the case, rollers flew all over, almost like the dreaded balls  Only with balls once you find them all you can put it back together. This new bearing is toast. Now I hope to heaven I can find the factory part with quick delivery, otherwise my season is over! No more taking chances on "upgrades". Lessons: 1) Don't try to outsmart the Honda engineer who designed this great bike. Replace with OEM or equivalent. 2) Don't buy anything made by the British, unless made of alcohol or wool. I owned an MG once, ya think I woulda learned. I only loved it when I was drunk and it was running, which rarely occurred together, and not because of my sobriety. '81 GL500 Silverwing    Report

10-21-2009, 5:22 PM Blindstitch Joined on 03-14-2009 Greenfield Wisconsin Posts 9,863 Re: Change of heart I think you are having a bad experience. The stock parts will probably cost more then the upgrade. I bet if you drop by a honda dealer they will suggest to get the all balls tapered bearings. They cost about $40 and come with a dust seal. Since you know the procedure just pick up that 1mm shim and go from there. It really makes turning smooth.  Not that it matters but did you pack your bearings with grease? 1979 CX500 Supertanker ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier. Quick Reference    Report

10-21-2009, 5:39 PM Retroben Joined on 08-13-2009 Akron, OH Posts 51 Re: Change of heart  Blindstitch wrote: Not that it matters but did you pack your bearings with grease? I packed 'em real good with moly-enriched grease. Novice to motorcycle mechanics yes, novice to mechanics in general, no '81 GL500 Silverwing    Report

10-21-2009, 5:43 PM Blindstitch Joined on 03-14-2009 Greenfield Wisconsin Posts 9,863 Re: Heard of ducks I know a share of guys that would have used them with no grease. 1979 CX500 Supertanker ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier. Quick Reference    Report

10-21-2009, 6:37 PM Retroben Joined on 08-13-2009 Akron, OH Posts 51 Re: Heard of ducks  Blindstitch wrote: I know a share of guys that would have used them with no grease. I don't think I was being quite that stupid. I just thought the Pyramid was a direct fit kit. You used the All-Balls? Did you need to shim the lower bearing? '81 GL500 Silverwing    Report

10-21-2009, 6:47 PM Shep Joined on 01-30-2007 UK.2x1980CX500A Posts 7,647 Re: Heard of ducks I don't know if you have seen this thread, http://australiancx.asn.au/forum/index.php?topic=2973.0 My Music http://www.reverbnation.com/pauldouglas/ Join Just In Case :) http://globalcxglvtwins.hostingdelivered.com/ Id quot circumiret, circumveniat    Report

10-21-2009, 7:24 PM DaveF Joined on 06-11-2008 Lawrenceville, GA Posts 1,232 Tapered Steering Head Bearings I've installed several All Balls kits.  Earlier in this thread you will see where a 0.100 inch spacer washer (shim) was used on the triple tree.  This shim was provided in the All Balls kit and was necessary, at least on the GL500 bikes I've worked on. Also mentioned earlier, after being made aware of the fit problems All Balls revised the installation instructions to machine the adjuster nut.  I do not know if All Balls subsequently changed the bearing dimensions to ensure a proper fit without this machining. I have not had occasion to install a kit lately but would like to know others' experiences with both the All Balls and Pyramid kits currently being sold.  This thread is a good place to discuss problems and observations. In my opinion, the tapered roller bearings are a significant improvement and I would not hesitate to install them again.  FWIW, the Honda engineers used tapered roller bearings in the CX Turbos and other bikes in the twisted twins family. As an aside, if the bearings fit properly when installed there should be no need to adjust them later after riding a few miles.  If this is necessary there may be a fitment issue. Your frustration is certainly understandable.  Hopefully you will have it resolved soon.  When it's finally right you will likely be very happy with the results. My Web Site 1982 GL500 1983 GL650    Report

10-21-2009, 7:25 PM Retroben Joined on 08-13-2009 Akron, OH Posts 51 Re: Heard of ducks  Shep wrote: I don't know if you have seen this thread, http://australiancx.asn.au/forum/index.php?topic=2973.0 Don't know why, but can't see any of the images. '81 GL500 Silverwing    Report

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Honda CX500 & G... » CX500 GL500 Tra... » General Discuss... » Tapered Steering Head Bearing Installation Issues

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