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General Discussion
Started by Anonymous at 04-12-2008 3:00 PM. Topic has 10 replies.
  
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 04-12-2008, 3:00 PM
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Anonymous
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I can't get my mechanical seal in!!!!
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I saw the oven method but my mech seal is from honda.... what do i do?
I tried the cold way and it won't go in, started bending on the sides....
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04-12-2008, 3:38 PM
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Anonymous
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Re: I can't get my mechanical seal in!!!!
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04-12-2008, 10:05 PM
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Randall-in-Mpls
 
Joined on 07-06-2007
Minneapolis, MN
Posts 2,629
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Re: I can't get my mechanical seal in!!!!
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How timely. I just helped with this very repair this afternoon.
Contrary to Don in Oz's observations, my experience with the US-market '78 CX500s is that the original mechanical seal is smaller than those currently available, either from Honda or Yamaha, and that there is NO STEP between the mech seal seat and the adjacent oil seal seat.
Today, we verified using a caliper that the original mech seal is smaller than the Yamaha replacement seal. This is consistent with the Honda replacement I used last summer. (To my knowledge only the later, larger seal is available from Honda.) Again, contrary to Don's observations of the Oz-market bikes, this photo from Rob Davis' website clearly shows a step between the mech seal and oil seal seats, with the larger diameter at the waterpump side. I assume this to be the case with the later CXs in the US, as well.
(EDIT: An afterthought - given the age of these engines, it's possible that this example was previously machined to receive the larger seal.)
In both cases, I created a step using the method described by Rick Hoad near the end of this page from Rob's site. I also fashioned a press based on Ian Shearer's comments on the same page.
You'll need to obtain a Dremel flap wheel (Dremel #504).
It's important to enlarge the waterpump side of the hole, only as deep as the weep hole. Enlarging the engine side will prevent the oil seal seating properly.
Using the flapwheel in an electric drill, hone the hole a little at a time, checking the size frequently. Today, we used the caliper as a gauge, set to the original hole diameter plus the difference in the mech seal cup sizes (23/1000ths in, about 1/2mm), Last summer, I checked using the cup. (I was more confident with the caliper.) Don't hone the hole to the full measured size of the cup. It needs to be a snug fit.
The final result doesn't have the clean step of the factory-machined example above, but both the mech seal and the oil seal fit properly.
EDIT: Be sure to clean out the weep hole after honing. It hasn't yet been done in this photo.
The press is made from a short length of 3/8" threaded rod, two large washers, two nuts, and about three inches of 1" ID schedule 40 PVC pipe, sanded smooth on the end. The pipe fits perfectly over the rubber parts of the seal, contacting only the flange of the metal cup.
One end of my press is a little out of square, so I had to rotate the pipe and press it again. In the end, it's a perfect fit.
A reminder from R80Dave, our mentor this weekend: Don't touch the rubber or ceramic parts of the mechanical seal with your hands. The oils in your skin can degrade the surfaces.
R
'78 CX500 - Black Maggot --> Green Grub / Yellow Grub / Red Grub ???
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04-13-2008, 5:53 AM
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Interstater
Joined on 12-10-2006
La Crosse, Wisconsin
Posts 217
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Re: I can't get my mechanical seal in!!!!
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Randall, that is EXACTLY what I had to do last year to get a new seal into my GL500, it is the only method that worked. Your information and pics are great!
'81 GL500 Interstate
'82 GL500 Interstate
'82 GL1100 Interstate
'99 Valkyrie Interstate
'99 750 Shadow ACE
'99 1100 Shadow Spirit
I first hit the highways in '78 on a CB200T.
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04-13-2008, 6:20 AM
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tntchitwood
Joined on 03-02-2008
Pine Knot, KY
Posts 511
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Re: I can't get my mechanical seal in!!!!
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nice info R.
'82 Silverwing Chopper
'02 750 Shadow
http://choppercharles.com/cs/forums/29599/ShowPost.aspx
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04-19-2008, 4:23 AM
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str8edge
Joined on 03-18-2008
Posts 21
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Re: I can't get my mechanical seal in!!!!
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so funny update. i took it to the dealership, certified honda shop and they couldn't even get it in! so now i don't feel like that much of an idiot.
they basically told me to do it myself. after about an hour.
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04-19-2008, 9:12 AM
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George in Indiana
Joined on 03-03-2006
Posts 954
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Re: I can't get my mechanical seal in!!!!
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 str8edge wrote: | | so funny update. i took it to the dealership, certified honda shop and they couldn't even get it in! so now i don't feel like that much of an idiot.
they basically told me to do it myself. after about an hour. |
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So what's the outcome? Did you follow Randall's excellent detailed post (complete with step by step pictures) and get it to fit?
CX500 TURBO
CX650 TURBO
'04 GSX1300R Hayabusa
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04-19-2008, 11:42 AM
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TwoW4B2C4V
Joined on 11-15-2007
Posts 509
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Re: I can't get my mechanical seal in!!!!
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| str8edge wrote: | | so funny update. i took it to the dealership, certified honda shop and they couldn't even get it in! so now i don't feel like that much of an idiot.
they basically told me to do it myself. after about an hour. |
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Like I said before, two words, Machine Shop. Most dealers will farm out anything like this to a machine shop anyway, and charge you for the priveledge.
Please reply if you don't get this message.
01/20/13
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04-19-2008, 12:52 PM
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DaveNearAtlanta
Joined on 03-03-2006
Lawrenceville, GA
Posts 500
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Re: I can't get my mechanical seal in!!!!
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Outstanding write-up, Randall! 
My Web Site
1982 GL500
1983 GL650
This User ID is no longer used. DaveF is my new User ID.
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06-03-2008, 9:41 AM
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redryder
Joined on 01-16-2007
Orange, CA
Posts 213
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Re: I can't get my mechanical seal in!!!!
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All right.. so I mucked up my first attempt at installing the Yamaha seal.. I have the smaller apeture (27.8mm) case which I flapped wheeled to an estimated 28.1mm (very hard to get a proper reading with my vernier calipers).. The dimension would increase only slightly (~.01mm per 30s of flapwheel'n) despite extensive time honing.. During the process, I had attempted to press the seal in on 2 different occasions.. both were aborted very early seeing how much pressing force was needed.. I continued to "flap" and on the 3rd attempt, it felt like it was going in with a reasonable pressing force. Removing the home made press, I found the seal mangled.. Nice.. Nowhere have I seen an exact dimension listed for the enlarged hole. I assume it has to be at least 28.3mm. Would it be better to spec out a bore size .01mm .001mm or .xxx smaller than the mech seal cup?
Now that I have a better idea of how the whole mech seal works, I wish I had used Sheps method 
81 CX500C
79 CM400T (seized)
81 CM400E (next project)
99 CR250
FAQ thread
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06-03-2008, 10:53 AM
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Reg in Bristol
Joined on 03-11-2006
Bristol UK
Posts 782
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Re: I can't get my mechanical seal in!!!!
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Out of interest
I have a 1980ish CDI type rear cover and a later 1982ish Eurosport rear cover
here.
the early one is not stepped but the later one is
why or who dunnit, i have no idea
A Honda mech seal for the early type drops in to the Euro cover , Literally!
The 'Mongrel' is on the road
78 frame, ZAB gubbins, 82 'TI' motor, Suzuki clocks, MZ screen
and gaiters, Kawasaki master cylinder, BMW horns
DIY wiring
and all thrown together with a fanatical inattention to detail :-)
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Honda CX500 & G... » CX500 GL500 Tra... » General Discuss... » Re: I can't get my mechanical seal in!!!!
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