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CX Customization and Modifications
Started by PWG in Lowgap NC at 05-18-2010 8:26 AM. Topic has 301 replies.
  
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 05-18-2010, 8:26 AM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
 
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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Re: La Cosa front fenders & steering latest
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My pitman arm arrived yesterday, Spent the morning re-machining the splines and a new notch in the stem to get the arm installed backwards from what it normally would be.
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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05-28-2010, 8:38 AM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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Re: La Cosa front fenders & steering latest
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Yesterday, I finally got the right Rod ends delivered and had them installed after lunch. I am expecting the tie rod tubes today. Earlier this week I walked the papers through the DMV and we're Titled, Inspected, and Plated. I expect to be test riding this afternoon, if it doesn't rain.
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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05-28-2010, 11:19 AM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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Re: La Cosa steering latest
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I installed the tie rod tubes and did some test riding. Needs a good eye for alignment but it is an improvement over the previous unit and it looks as if it will be at the HTTA BRMC rally after all.
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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05-29-2010, 6:15 AM
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mr. softie
Joined on 03-14-2009
Beautiful Bucks County PA... I ride a 83 GL650I
Posts 663
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Re: La Cosa steering latest
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Cool! A tad of toe in is helpful to eliminate wander or touchy steering.
May the wind always be at your back and the sun overhead as you make your way down the ever winding, smoothly paved, traffic free road!
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
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05-30-2010, 3:47 PM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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Today in Lowgap: Temperature gauge is connected up to the cooling system @ the upper radiator hose under the hood. The air horns are hooked up and sound really wild. Tomorrow:...The Oil pressure line will be hooked up and out on the highway for some test rides, Possibly to Parish tire for alignment. I love my job. My boss is so nice.
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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05-30-2010, 5:06 PM
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mr. softie
Joined on 03-14-2009
Beautiful Bucks County PA... I ride a 83 GL650I
Posts 663
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Yes it must be nice to have such a nice boss. I am a boss but not that nice, and my boss is nice but I wind up doing her job as well as mine, which makes me be not so nice. Looking forward to seeing La Cosa, good luck with the alignment.
May the wind always be at your back and the sun overhead as you make your way down the ever winding, smoothly paved, traffic free road!
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
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06-01-2010, 5:21 PM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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Lowgap today. I made a great new friend and triker named Time Nine. He has built dozens of trikes, the one he rode today is built to look like a roman chariot. He had some very helpful suggestions for La Cosa which I started on just as soon as he left my shop. I will try to post a picture of his rig here. That is my wife at the reins.
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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06-01-2010, 5:23 PM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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Lowgap today. I made a great new friend and triker named Tim Nine. He has built dozens of trikes, the one he rode today is built to look like a roman chariot. He had some very helpful suggestions for La Cosa which I started on just as soon as he left my shop.
Wed, 6/2/10 I took La Cosa to three different alignment shops this morning trying to get it aligned. It looks like it's up to me.
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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06-02-2010, 11:27 AM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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Re: La Cosa lack of progress
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OK all you pseudo engineers, let me impinge upon the periphery of you're noggins with this Idea! The problem I'm having with La Cosa's steering is it is too sensitive. Any little bump in the road will cause the trike to change direction. Corrective steering usually is over-corrective and I can't get it safely over 35 mph. THOUGHT, Suppose I made the steering arms 2 inches longer? What Would that change.
At a loss
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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06-02-2010, 12:05 PM
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LRCXed
Joined on 05-15-2008
Sacramento, California
Posts 1,670
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Re: La Cosa lack of progress
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Phil, I know some steering boxes have a quick ratio built into them. How much does it take to turn the wheel from full left to full right
turn? Is it possible to find a box with a little less aggressive ratio?
What did yours come out of? Was it a sports car with a short wheel base?
It may have something to do with your problem. Making the arm longer would be my first attempt.
If your going to do something, do it right, don't do it half as@*d.
78 CX500 Std, 79 CX500 project, 80 CX500C, 83 GL650I
http://globalcxglvtwins.hostingdelivered.com/
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06-02-2010, 1:57 PM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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Re: La Cosa lack of progress
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Hi Larry, thanks for the quick response. The steering box is a new part for an early VW Beetle. from Moore sandrail parts. three & a half turns of a small ( 12" OD wheel.)
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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06-02-2010, 2:05 PM
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LRCXed
Joined on 05-15-2008
Sacramento, California
Posts 1,670
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Re: La Cosa lack of progress
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Well that shoots that theory down. Maybe you could contact them and see if they have any suggestions.
How long are the arms on the spindles? Maybe they should be longer as well, Just thinking out loud here!
If your going to do something, do it right, don't do it half as@*d.
78 CX500 Std, 79 CX500 project, 80 CX500C, 83 GL650I
http://globalcxglvtwins.hostingdelivered.com/
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06-02-2010, 2:13 PM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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Re: La Cosa lack of progress
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How long are the arms on the spindles?
Those are the arms I suggested lengthening. I'm for sure riding my Boulevard down to the HTTA BRMC.
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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06-02-2010, 2:28 PM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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Re: La Cosa lack of progress
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How long are the arms on the spindles?
The steering arms are measured roughly from pivot point of kingpin to pivot point of tie rod end. It is 6.250" The length of the pitman arm Pivot to pivot is 6.125" right side and 6.250" left side (offset for clearance) Let's take this conversation to PM from this point on.
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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06-02-2010, 2:46 PM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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Re: La Cosa lack of progress
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If I must, I suppose I can cut open some of the frame to clear a universal joint and reinstall the original MGB rack & pinion steering. then it's just a matter of a couple more joints to the steering wheel. I never had this problem with any of my MG's. THOUGHT! could my frame be twisting?
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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06-03-2010, 12:42 PM
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dana_h_acdc
Joined on 05-20-2010
Pittsburgh PA
Posts 58
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Re: La Cosa lack of progress
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Looking at the pics of your frame you posted I'd bet money that you could be jumping schoolbuses without worries of frame twist.
I can't determine what kind of suspension you have in the front that may be where the touchy handling is coming from.
Is it solid or struts or shocks? Or you using springs with no dampening at all?
JH2PC011XBM201193
1981 CX500 Deluxe THE TURD [everyone says you cant polish a turd So I guess the name is going to stay]
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06-03-2010, 5:36 PM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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Re: La Cosa lack of progress
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I am using a MGB front axle and suspension to include lower A frame with new bushings, King pins and upper control arms with rebuilt shocks. The MGB steering was first replaced with a Porsche Rack & Pinion Unit because the steering stem was in the center. This unit proved to be very sensitive, so I switched to a regular steering box/pitman arm setup which is just as bad. I may alter the frame at left forward, non structural element to allow the original MGB rack & pinion to be used. I have owned and driven MGB's in competition and never had a steering problem. If I change back and still have the problem, Then I'll know it's the frame twisting and address that with additional bracing.
<img src="http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af273/Windjammer73/frontaxle.jpg" border="0" />
So it looks like next available HTTA event for unveiling will be the Amish Rally in August.
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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06-03-2010, 7:16 PM
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Blindstitch
Joined on 03-14-2009
Greenfield Wisconsin
Posts 9,861
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Re: La Cosa lack of progress
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06-03-2010, 9:42 PM
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dana_h_acdc
Joined on 05-20-2010
Pittsburgh PA
Posts 58
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Re: La Cosa lack of progress
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Any MG has an engine in the front holding the front wheels to the ground.
Have you thought of throwing a few sand bags up there to see if it is just too light with no weight on the wheels?
I know that a light front end can give goofy handling [think VW in the snow].
Before you tear down and rebuild add a little weight up there first to see if the jittery handling will calm down.
Just my thoughts after a few beers...
JH2PC011XBM201193
1981 CX500 Deluxe THE TURD [everyone says you cant polish a turd So I guess the name is going to stay]
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06-03-2010, 11:06 PM
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ramprat06
Joined on 03-22-2006
Vancouver WA USA
Posts 361
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Re: La Cosa lack of progress
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PWG wrote..
"" THOUGHT! could my frame be twisting?""
One of the other posters said the frame was stout enough to jump buses, but I doubt that is your desire. I am no structural master, but my peek at that last photo gives me pause.
If you were to place an X shaped piece of flatter metal beam.....say 1/2" thick by 1 1/2 " wide from a mid point of the cab brace on either side to the opposite front point of the underframe beneath the front axle area, that might eliminate any central body shimmy, and allow the front suspension to manage the corrections in steering more effectively. It might shift the effort more to the center of gravity point, making it less cumbersome to manage.
I say that assuming you have nothing in that spare area directly behind the center of the front axle brace. Lay that X out on top or under the existing frame beams.
I wish I could draw it on the picture. I don't know how.
Joel in the Couve
May the multitude of wheels in your head always control the two wheels between your legs.
1982 CX500 custom. 99% stock.
3rd owner
New to me, Spring '03 ~7k miles
Now, ~23k miles
Age 55
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06-09-2010, 3:40 AM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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Re: La Cosa lack of progress
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"Any MG has an engine in the front holding the front wheels to the ground.
Have you thought of throwing a few sand bags up there to see if it is just too light with no weight on the wheels?'
That's where my feet, pedals, steering shaft and coolant hoses are. Some forum members following this thread, expressed concerns that the rig will be too heavy. Let me try the MG steering next, I may have to back the project up to the beginning and start over with my design.
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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06-10-2010, 9:28 PM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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Re: La Cosa lack of progress
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I have the MGB steering rack on my bench, dismantled and re-lubed the inner tie-rod ends and put on new gators. As soon as I'm able, I'll get them mounted, probably not until we get back from Vermont. Also, I have made the dash panel removable so I can get all the under-dash wiring done on the bench and just make a couple connections after installation. Getting better every day.
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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06-11-2010, 12:44 PM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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Re: La Cosa lack of progress
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I have to try one more trick before I abandon my current steering. I didn't think I could control the caster on my front end. After spending a late night online, I found I can, thanks to the reverse trike page.
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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06-20-2010, 5:45 AM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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Re: La Cosa lack of progress
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Not a whole lot happening to La Cosa while I am in Vermont. I'll give it hell when I get home.
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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06-25-2010, 3:11 AM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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Re: La Cosa lack of progress
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Yesterday in Lowgap: Out before sunup, very warm & humid. I finished and reinstalled the dashboard panel. I also fabricated the quarter inch shims and loosened all the front axle bolts before I retreated to a cooler place.
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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06-26-2010, 3:15 PM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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Re: La Cosa lack of progress
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TODAY in Lowgap: The front axle assembly is completely removed from La Cosa. I am going to drill out the rear mounting bolts and replace them with longer bolts. (not enough thread to include the shims I'm putting in) Lately I have limited time to work before the heat drives me indoors to air conditioned spaces.
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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06-28-2010, 3:30 AM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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This morning the front end gets put back together and hopefully I'll not have to do it again. I have some cruise in's to attend and the entire east coast Brotherhood of the Third Wheel is having a Trike-In right here in Mount Airy on Labor day. By that time I will have ridden to the Amish Rally and back on La Cosa. Maybe I'll have two trikes at the BTW Trike-in
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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06-28-2010, 3:27 PM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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Done before noon. Tomorrow: Hook up the brake lines & bleed. hook up the throttle cable, reinstall the mirrors and test ride again.
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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06-28-2010, 5:33 PM
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bobttroll
Joined on 06-15-2007
Chicago
Posts 54
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![Smile [:)]](http://choppercharles.com/cs/emoticons/emotion-1.gif)
Re: La Cosa's Progress
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we are dying for some pics.
___________________________________________
1983 CX650C ( first bike )
2010 Harley Nightster ( The Bike that works )
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06-29-2010, 11:11 AM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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I finished up with the reassembly and tried it out in the neighborhood. I can't really tell much on our roads but it still seems quite sensitive. Will get out on the blacktop later to see if I have improved it.
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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06-29-2010, 7:50 PM
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mr. softie
Joined on 03-14-2009
Beautiful Bucks County PA... I ride a 83 GL650I
Posts 663
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Do you have a steering damper on La Cosa Phil? My old 4 wheel drive Suburbans needed one or they were all over the road.
May the wind always be at your back and the sun overhead as you make your way down the ever winding, smoothly paved, traffic free road!
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
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06-30-2010, 8:26 AM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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No, I think I should try one.
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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06-30-2010, 10:05 AM
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RichNCT
Joined on 03-02-2006
Connecticut, USA
Posts 3,463
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Not that there is any advice in the following ramble, but I'm thinking weird geometry. Your wheel base (front to back) is probably only 2/3 of the original car the steering was designed for. That would add sensitivity, how much? I don't know. Also, the width of the front steering wheels relative to the single rear wheel must be a wildcard too. Using extremes for illustration (the republicans do it all the time ;-) ) if on your machine the wheel base stayed the same, but the front steering wheels were , say, 20 ft apart, the steering would probably get real funky, even though the wheelbase remained the same. Just some thoughts.
Also, my dentist this morning said his restored 70's jeep was squirrely on the road until he found the problem: the lift springs he'd installed were allowing the front axle to sway a little relative to the vehicle frame. A sway bar cured his problem by keeping the steering axle stable.
Refueling on The James Bay Road, 2009
Born to be relatively wild (for a grampa x 3)
GL650I, CX650E, CX650T
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07-01-2010, 8:00 AM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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Yesterday I took a short test drive in the neighborhood and couldn't tell if there was any difference after adjusting the front caster. When I got home I drained the air from my front tires down to about 20 psi.
This morning I took a nice drive over mixed gravel and paved roads and I'm now convinced that a stabilizer will correct my steering woes. One is on the way as we speak.
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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07-06-2010, 3:28 AM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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Yesterday in Lowgap: I installed the steering damper on La Cosa yesterday and Test drove the thing around the neighborhood, it is a huge improvement and I'm looking forward to testing it on real roads this morning. Wish me luck.
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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07-06-2010, 9:32 AM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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There comes a time when every project needs to be evaluated and decisions made. After this mornings test ride, my decision was made. Scrap the project and sell off the assets. I will rewrite the Craig's list ad with a more realistic asking price and if no response, dissect the beast and sell the organs.
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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07-06-2010, 10:09 AM
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Blindstitch
Joined on 03-14-2009
Greenfield Wisconsin
Posts 9,861
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Re: La Cosa, End of project
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That bad eh? Can you shed some light on your decision for us? Possibly going back to a 2 in the rear trike?
1979 CX500 Supertanker
ATGATT makes riding a bike like a sled easier.
Quick Reference
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07-06-2010, 11:49 AM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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Re: La Cosa, End of project
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Stitch: I thought I said it already. "I will rewrite the Craig's list ad with a more realistic asking price and if no response, dissect the beast and sell the organs."
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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07-06-2010, 6:49 PM
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mr. softie
Joined on 03-14-2009
Beautiful Bucks County PA... I ride a 83 GL650I
Posts 663
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Re: La Cosa, End of project
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"Nothing ventured, nothing gained". Think of all the stuff you learned, and all the fun you had building La Cosa. Are you not going to ride it to the Amish then?
Edit... I just checked out your Craigslist ad Phil. That is a drastic price reduction.
May the wind always be at your back and the sun overhead as you make your way down the ever winding, smoothly paved, traffic free road!
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
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07-07-2010, 2:38 AM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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Re: La Cosa, End of project
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It doesn't matter what you put into something, it's what that something will sell for.
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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07-07-2010, 7:44 AM
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gopher
Joined on 11-06-2008
Sk.Ca. Age 56
Posts 608
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Re: La Cosa front fenders & steering latest
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I'm sorry to hear that PW. Before Shep beats me to it , a bit o' Robbie Burns..
" The best-laid schemes o' mice an 'men
Gang aft agley,
An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain,
For promis'd joy!"
1981 GL500I
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07-08-2010, 12:09 PM
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lucky
Joined on 03-06-2009
kingman az age 26
Posts 1,443
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Re: La Cosa, End of project
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i am sorry to hear that your scraping the la cosa but this might sound strange can you send me the link to the cl ad you have going pwg??
1982 honda cx500c
1979 honda xr185 dirt bike
If you can read this thank a TEACHER If you're reading this in ENGLISH thank a SOLDIER
http://globalcxglvtwins.hostingdelivered.com/
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07-10-2010, 6:33 AM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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http://charlotte.craigslist.org/mcy/1828448883.aspx
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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07-10-2010, 1:41 PM
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Abes_CW
Joined on 04-17-2007
saskatoon
Posts 3,036
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"It is a riot to drive."
Litterally!
I remember as a kid my dad was selling an old Renault, I was about 6, and I remember the ad like it was yesterday
1967 Renault R8, runs excellent, needs an engine.
1983 GL650i
Had 4 CX/GL's at one point this year, down to one, next spring is another adventure!
age 38 (29 plus tax)
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07-19-2010, 2:04 AM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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My friend, Tim, believes he can make La Cosa behave better on the road and wants a crack at it. I'm going to kill the CL ads and give him a chance. I would love to see this project work.
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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07-19-2010, 7:44 AM
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LRCXed
Joined on 05-15-2008
Sacramento, California
Posts 1,670
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Good to hear your going to try again Phil. Good luck!
If your going to do something, do it right, don't do it half as@*d.
78 CX500 Std, 79 CX500 project, 80 CX500C, 83 GL650I
http://globalcxglvtwins.hostingdelivered.com/
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07-19-2010, 3:40 PM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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Thanks Larry, I noticed he has a couple VW front ends, maybe he'll make a swap.
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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07-19-2010, 4:59 PM
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Toeehad
Joined on 06-22-2010
Worcester, MA
Posts 103
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Sounds like you have some crazy bump steer. That usually has to do with the suspension geometry. Look a the arc the suspension traces out as it moves up and down. You want the tie rods to be tracing as close to the same arc as possible.
1980 CX500C
1974 TS125 (Sold)
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07-21-2010, 1:55 AM
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PWG in Lowgap NC
Joined on 01-07-2008
Minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway
Posts 2,379
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Sounds logical,but shouldn't I feel that in the steering wheel? There may, at the most, an eigth inch of slack in the system.
06 Suzuki S50 daily ride
CX500c
Honda Magna BC
age 72
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07-21-2010, 6:47 AM
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Toeehad
Joined on 06-22-2010
Worcester, MA
Posts 103
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Not necessarily. I worked on a team that built a dune bugy, and our first steering geometry was a nightmare.
We eventually got a book to help us out, and it made all the dfference.
http://www.amazon.com/Competition-Car-Suspension-practical-handbook/dp/1844253287/ref=pd_sim_b_1
Here is a better explanation of bump steer in a jeep.
http://www.quadratec.com/jeep_knowledgebase/article-68.htm
1980 CX500C
1974 TS125 (Sold)
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Honda CX500 & G... » CX500 GL500 Tra... » CX Customizatio... » La Cosa shaping up
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