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11-23-2008, 6:29 AM kingston73 Joined on 04-19-2008 Bellingham, MA Posts 1,722 Rebuilding the starter? I'm in the first stages of rebuilding my engine, I've just started taking things apart and havent' ordered any parts or pieces yet, but I know I have a bad starter.  When I changed out engines back in June, the new (80) engine wouldn't start, just clicked when I hit the button.  I switched out the starter from my 79 and it fired right up, so I know the 80 starter is definitely bad.  From the looks of the engine when I first got it, it must have sat outside for a while, so I supposed the starter probably got rained on a few times at least.  I haven't opened it up yet because I didnt want to waste my time.  Are these things rebuildable?  I know I can buy one on ebay for not much, but don't like to waste things if I can, so if it's possible to fix it I'd like to at least try. 1979 cx500D - mostly stock    Report

11-23-2008, 6:40 AM Blindstitch2002 Joined on 05-16-2007 Greenfield Wisconsin Posts 5,000 Re: Rebuilding the starter? The starters are can be rebuilt. I remember several people on the forum taking them apart and cleaning them but since it probably isn't a common problem to need them rebuilt I don't think there is a page with directions/pictures. I have been told that it is really easy and I would like to know for myself too. 1978 Honda Cx500 Maggot 1979 Honda Cx500 Custom 1980 Cx500 Deluxe Buy HTTA Items Quick Reference Info    Report

11-23-2008, 6:51 AM Reg in Bristol Joined on 03-11-2006 Bristol UK Posts 782 Re: Rebuilding the starter? Yes they are. I had one in KAE (my old blue un) which worked well for years but gradually got sluggish I stripped it down which was easy as long as you can get the long screws out with out too much of a struggle and found a faulty oil seal had allowed engine oil to build up in it. 'Starter shenanigans' in my 'Tinkerin' pages has some words and pics there is a circlip on the commutator end which may try to fly off down the street but as long as your aware of this, its pretty easy to service them. Take note of the placement of the washers along the shaft BTW The brushes are still available from Honda and I'm told the long screws can be had as well The 'Mongrel' is on the road 78 frame, ZAB gubbins, 82 'TI' motor, Suzuki clocks, MZ screen and gaiters, Kawasaki master cylinder, BMW horns DIY wiring and all thrown together with a fanatical inattention to detail :-)    Report

11-23-2008, 7:24 AM Blindstitch2002 Joined on 05-16-2007 Greenfield Wisconsin Posts 5,000 Re: Rebuilding the starter? Guess I spoke to soon about the starter pages. I checked sheps, Rob Davis, Ofapar's, and I ran quickly through the tinkering pages. There's a lot of good info in there but for some reason I can never find what I'm looking for in there. That's a crazy picture of the oil filled starter. I have a starter in the basement that I was thinking of looking at because the one on my brothers bike spins like a little girl. Seems like it's 1/4 under power to start the bike with a single short push of the button. 1978 Honda Cx500 Maggot 1979 Honda Cx500 Custom 1980 Cx500 Deluxe Buy HTTA Items Quick Reference Info    Report

11-23-2008, 9:47 PM senile_seinen Joined on 07-25-2008 Charlottesville, VA Posts 180 Re: Rebuilding the starter? I did this a couple of weeks ago.  Since my bike isn't exactly show-ready, it wasn't a big deal to grab the long screws with vice grips to break them loose after a shot of penetrating oil in the right places.  Once broken loose, the screws came out easily. The hardest part was getting the snap ring back on the end of the shaft (couldn't find my snap ring pliers). A nice feature is that you can remove both end caps (which carry the drive end bearing and the tailshaft bushing) without disengaging the armature from the brushes.  There is indeed a little lip seal in the drive end cap that keeps the crankcase oil out of the starter motor.  Mine looked fine, so I just put everything back together after a thorough cleaning (lots of brush dust in there) and a little wheel bearing grease for the bushing. It does seem to spin a little easier now.  My starting problem turned out to be a dying battery.  The bike starts easily with its new battery and rebuilt starter motor. 1981 CX500 Custom    Report

11-24-2008, 4:32 AM kingston73 Joined on 04-19-2008 Bellingham, MA Posts 1,722 Re: Rebuilding the starter? So is it mainly a matter of cleaning everything real well? No extra parts or pieces I'll need to order? I'll take a picture of it when I get it apart, but like I said, it just "clicked" when I tried it, and the motor ran fine once I replaced the starter. 1979 cx500D - mostly stock    Report

11-24-2008, 6:04 AM ezzee Joined on 08-20-2008 CT Posts 858 Re: Rebuilding the starter? Since the subject is starters, I have one that sounds like a diesel motor starting, a loud whir sound as the starter engages and spins the motor, then stops the noise as the engine starts.  Any ideas, it is on a 81 Custom I just  pcked up, low mileage but another one that sat for 15 years so corrosion is an issue. 1978 CX 500 1981 GL 500 1981 Custom 1982 GL    Report

11-24-2008, 9:50 AM RichNCT Joined on 03-02-2006 Connecticut, USA Posts 3,463 Re: Rebuilding the starter? The most likely failure mode of the starters is that they get sluggish or weak.  They come apart easily, then blow and/or wash them with electric/electronic aerosol cleaning solvent.  You will likely find a lot of crud built up inside and a slightly burned commutator.  I put the armature (rotating part) into a portable drill and polish the commutator (brass/copper bar end) with some fine emery cloth.  Clean it well afterward to remove any grit.  Cleanup the bearing ends, inspect the brushes and springs and I have always been able to reinstall all original parts.  Lightly lube the bearing ends and reassemble.  A good improvement in performance is very likely, and the job only takes about 45 minutes.  Notice where the spacer washers were and reinstall then in the same place.  A quick sketch is worth looking for a pencil.  Note:  if you buy a used starter, the ones with no philips screw heads visible on the outer surface of the housing are from a CX650T (turbo) and are considered inferior, don't bother using them.  On the "regular" starters, the gray ones are from the earlier years, but gray or black are both fine, and maybe they are identical. As for the "starting diesel" sounds, I can't think of what that sounds like in a starter?  If there are loud clacks and snaps and starter not engaging in a positive way, that is farther inside the engine, and can lead quickly to more severe damage.  It has nothing to do with the starter motor.  A weak battery can cause this condition too, and it is more commonly experienced on the 650s than the 500s.    Refueling on The James Bay Road, 2009 Born to be relatively wild (for a grampa x 3) GL650I, CX650E, CX650T    Report

11-24-2008, 11:05 AM kingston73 Joined on 04-19-2008 Bellingham, MA Posts 1,722 Re: Rebuilding the starter? Thanks for the starter 101 rich. What's the best type of lube for this? Is it light as in cable-lube type or actual grease? I'm going to try to take pictures at each step so I don't forget how things go back together, thanks for the warning. That's wicked interesting about the 650T's, I'd a thought it'd be the other way around. Reg - what'd you end up doing with that oil soaked starter? It looked pretty rough in the pictures, was it beyond repair? 1979 cx500D - mostly stock    Report

11-24-2008, 12:05 PM senile_seinen Joined on 07-25-2008 Charlottesville, VA Posts 180 Re: Rebuilding the starter? My bike has 30,000 miles on it, so the brushes were half-worn and the commutator looked fine.  All it wanted was a little lubrication refresh to the rear bushing and some cleaning. If yours quit working, then you probably will need to replace the brushes and buff the commutator as suggested. As for lubricant, I like a dab of something heavy that won't migrate (don't want oil on the brushes) so I use wheel bearing grease.  But less is more - just a dab way down in the blind bushing hole.  Test fit it once and check for ooze.  If nothing oozes out, you're good.  If anything does come out, wipe it off the end of the armature and the bushing hole in the cap before reassembling. The front bearing shouldn't really need anything - lubed by engine oil. 1981 CX500 Custom    Report

11-24-2008, 2:30 PM RichNCT Joined on 03-02-2006 Connecticut, USA Posts 3,463 Re: Rebuilding the starter? I use a drop, a single drop, of motor oil on the rear bearing, never tried grease though. Refueling on The James Bay Road, 2009 Born to be relatively wild (for a grampa x 3) GL650I, CX650E, CX650T    Report

11-26-2008, 8:07 AM Shep Joined on 01-30-2007 UK.2x1980CX500A Posts 7,647 Re: Rebuilding the starter? I use an old toothbrush and some electrical switch cleaner/Carb cleaner to clean the grooves out on the commutator and then very lightly brighten the metal with some scotchbrite/steel wool and then clean again and wipe with a tissue when done. The CX500 starters appear to be very robust and even the ones off basket case engines I've had have been serviceable and are in service HTH :) My Music http://www.reverbnation.com/pauldouglas/ Join Just In Case :) http://globalcxglvtwins.hostingdelivered.com/ Id quot circumiret, circumveniat    Report

11-29-2008, 9:45 AM DaWei Joined on 11-25-2006 Northfield, Atlantic County, NJ Posts 589 Re: Rebuilding the starter?  Shep wrote: brighten the metal with some scotchbrite/steel wool Sidecar Bob reminded me a while back that there are magnets in the starter.  Beware the tiny broken fragments of steel that result from use of steel wool - they're a bitch to remove! Dave in NJ '80 CX500 C - needs Triple Bypass - but TITLED! '78 CX500 - Working on NJ DMV Title Where's the BIRTH CERTIFICATE?    Report

11-29-2008, 11:02 AM Shep Joined on 01-30-2007 UK.2x1980CX500A Posts 7,647 Re: Rebuilding the starter?  DaWei wrote:  Shep wrote: brighten the metal with some scotchbrite/steel wool Sidecar Bob reminded me a while back that there are magnets in the starter.  Beware the tiny broken fragments of steel that result from use of steel wool - they're a bitch to remove! Good point.I stopped using wire wool because of this.I use Sctochbrite which is none metallic and none magnetic. My Music http://www.reverbnation.com/pauldouglas/ Join Just In Case :) http://globalcxglvtwins.hostingdelivered.com/ Id quot circumiret, circumveniat    Report

11-29-2008, 11:33 PM DavidfromWisconsin Joined on 03-19-2008 Appleton, WI Posts 2,458 Re: Rebuilding the starter? The Sctoch-brite pad won't scratch or put groves on the commutator. Also, a Scotch-brite will not short it out like steel wool can do if not cleaned out of the groves properly, or even if it falls in near the magnets, it won't stick. David From Wisconsin ... R80Dave '82 GL500I alias Candy '82 GL500I alias Candy II '00 BMW K1200LT & trailer '81 KZ440 (Wife's learning bike)    Report

11-30-2008, 4:01 PM kingston73 Joined on 04-19-2008 Bellingham, MA Posts 1,722 Re: Rebuilding the starter? Got it opened and found lots of rust N black dust.  Based on the picture I've got here, do y'all think its still recoverable?  I haven't started cleaning it yet, need to go buy some scotchbrite but thats a pretty good amount of rust on there. 1979 cx500D - mostly stock    Report

11-30-2008, 7:18 PM DavidfromWisconsin Joined on 03-19-2008 Appleton, WI Posts 2,458 Re: Rebuilding the starter? Start scrubbing and cleaning ... it will make a world of difference. David From Wisconsin ... R80Dave '82 GL500I alias Candy '82 GL500I alias Candy II '00 BMW K1200LT & trailer '81 KZ440 (Wife's learning bike)    Report

12-01-2008, 5:36 AM Shep Joined on 01-30-2007 UK.2x1980CX500A Posts 7,647 Re: Rebuilding the starter? I agree and if the starter was working ok before there should be no problem as these starters are of very high quality and are robust :) PS When you re-build and are fitting the Cam-chain don't forget to use,"Thread-lock" on the two small bolts that secure the Top Driven timing sprocket/gear. My Music http://www.reverbnation.com/pauldouglas/ Join Just In Case :) http://globalcxglvtwins.hostingdelivered.com/ Id quot circumiret, circumveniat    Report

12-01-2008, 5:55 AM kingston73 Joined on 04-19-2008 Bellingham, MA Posts 1,722 Re: Rebuilding the starter? Thanks for the threadlock tip. I have to order the new parts before I can do any re-building, in the mean time I'm going to try a go at cutting some gaskets for the front and rear. This starter I've never actually used, when I found the 80 engine it came with this starter, and when I tried to start it just clicked. In taking it apart I think it was just rusted because I couldn't turn it myself, so hopefully it'll work with some elbow grease and scotchbrite. 1979 cx500D - mostly stock    Report

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