Honda CX500 & GL500 Forum

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03-05-2009, 4:00 PM wildmanwill Joined on 05-25-2008 Chester County, Pennsylvania Posts 4,034 Valve Adjustment Woes Did any of these bikes come with a flat head on the valve adjusting screws?  My 650C has them instead of the square shaped heads. Now on to a different bike (650T): What would cause the adjustment nut to not tighten to the proper torque?  I'm assuming that something is stripped? Just the screw/nut or something further down? Another one was not tightening but then the head snapped off.  I did retrieve it - didn't fall into the abyss.  Now what?  I guess I obviously need to get the remaining part of the screw out with an easy out. This is the same bike that I discovered the PO had put the oil filter spring between the filter and the engine!  1983 CX650 Turbo 1982 CX500 Custom Donating Member    Report

03-05-2009, 4:47 PM MotorcycleCommuter Joined on 07-16-2008 Fairborn, Ohio Posts 435 Re: Valve Adjustment Woes 650s have a flat head screw driver slot in them and a 10mm jamb nut. They are easy to strip or break off. Hopefully the rocker arm isn't stripped and someone on this forum can send you a couple of spares. 1983 GL650i, 49,000 miles    Report

03-05-2009, 6:08 PM wildmanwill Joined on 05-25-2008 Chester County, Pennsylvania Posts 4,034 Re: Valve Adjustment Woes Must only be the custom and GL, because the Turbo has the square heads (or at least mine does)... I can track down the screws/nuts - I need to get some other stuff anyway, so I'll order it all together. 1983 CX650 Turbo 1982 CX500 Custom Donating Member    Report

03-05-2009, 6:18 PM Blindstitch2002 Joined on 05-16-2007 Greenfield Wisconsin Posts 5,000 Re: Valve Adjustment Woes My cx has the square head. I had one oddball that was flathead. Heres a tip for you. Go to the hardware store with a tappet and look for those stupid square head builders screws. Get one or two about 2 inches long. Then get a 5/8ths dowl and cut a 2 inch section out of it. Drill a small hole and screw in the screw and walla you have a tappet screwdriver. I'm curious abou the easy out. If it snapped off flush why not just take a set of needle nose pliers and use it to back the tappet screw out near the valve spring. Just screw it up and it should come out. The honda tool looks like this but why waste your money when you can make one for 50 cents or cheaper. 1978 Honda Cx500 Maggot 1979 Honda Cx500 Custom 1980 Cx500 Deluxe Buy HTTA Items Quick Reference Info    Report

03-05-2009, 6:37 PM Abes_CW Joined on 04-17-2007 saskatoon Posts 3,036 Re: Valve Adjustment Woes Well, those "stupid square head" screws, first of all, are one of the top inventions of the 2oth century. Robertson was his name, as is the name of the screw, and he was a Canadian, ;) If you wanna call someone stupid, call it to the guy who invented the slot screw, or flat head. or the guy who continues to use it............ No one strips a robertson screw, only phillips and flat......... Cheers, good idea about making a tool out of a #4 robertson screw and a piece of dowling. I've done it, as have others, and it makes a great valve adjustment tool, although in Canada instead of a piece of dowel we use the end of the hockey stick that we just cut off....... 1983 GL650i Had 4 CX/GL's at one point this year, down to one, next spring is another adventure! age 38 (29 plus tax)    Report

03-05-2009, 7:00 PM Blindstitch2002 Joined on 05-16-2007 Greenfield Wisconsin Posts 5,000 Re: Valve Adjustment Woes No offense to Roberson but I hate those screws. Yes I have never stripped one but I also never have a screwdriver or bit on me that can take one out and that's what makes it stupid to me. Don't we have enough screws. I have a more personal hate for torx bits. I do like hexed bits. Flathead is asking for trouble but no worse than having the wrong phillips bit for the screw. If only they could make a countersink bit to take out screwed up phillips head screws. 1978 Honda Cx500 Maggot 1979 Honda Cx500 Custom 1980 Cx500 Deluxe Buy HTTA Items Quick Reference Info    Report

03-05-2009, 8:06 PM Cobram Joined on 06-23-2007 Boston, MA Posts 1,547 Re: Valve Adjustment Woes  Abes_CW wrote: Well, those "stupid square head" screws, first of all, are one of the top inventions of the 2oth century. Robertson was his name, as is the name of the screw, and he was a Canadian, ;) No one strips a robertson screw, Thank you, you learn the darndest things in the darndest places.  I've been wondering about those damn square screws for a while, I re-ship industrial equipment sometimes, and I often get pallets and crates put together with those things..., they all originated in Canada.  You Canucks love those things, or you use them just to piss off the rest of the world!  You are correct about not stripping the screws, but I have a cup about half full of broken bits, those snap regularly. You learn something new every day. 1978 CX500 - I live on a one-way street that's also a dead end. I'm not sure how I got here, or how I'm going to get out. Four wheels move the body; Two wheels move the Soul.    Report

03-05-2009, 8:17 PM Len in PA Joined on 03-31-2006 Bristol, PA Posts 485 Re: Valve Adjustment Woes Them Robertson screws have been around since 1908. Very popular, for many years, with kitchen and bathroom cabinet manufacturers. Blindstitch, excellent suggestion! '82 GL500i...nearing 100,000 miles    Report

03-05-2009, 8:53 PM Blindstitch2002 Joined on 05-16-2007 Greenfield Wisconsin Posts 5,000 Re: Valve Adjustment Woes Picture of my cheap tool. 1978 Honda Cx500 Maggot 1979 Honda Cx500 Custom 1980 Cx500 Deluxe Buy HTTA Items Quick Reference Info    Report

03-05-2009, 9:03 PM A143road Joined on 10-08-2008 Spring,Texas Posts 354 Re: Valve Adjustment Woes I like that. We call them cool tools. John 46% 10-300 Biplane/RC. 1978 CX500    Report

03-05-2009, 11:17 PM wildmanwill Joined on 05-25-2008 Chester County, Pennsylvania Posts 4,034 Re: Valve Adjustment Woes I have a tool that works for the square heads.  To bring this thread back around: So whats the deal with ones that would not tighten down - like I said the nut would not tighten to the proper torque.  Replace the screw? Replace the nut? Stitch- thanks for the suggestion for removing the broken one.  I will investigate that first. 1983 CX650 Turbo 1982 CX500 Custom Donating Member    Report

03-06-2009, 7:42 AM Blindstitch2002 Joined on 05-16-2007 Greenfield Wisconsin Posts 5,000 Re: Valve Adjustment Woes You might want to pick up a few extra tappet screws. The threads are so fine that it isn't hard to strip them. The nuts hardly ever strip. You should back out the tappet and see how far the nut will screw down. It's possible that it could be just binding off a burr from the last tightening.  But spare parts are always the best. Nobody wants to be down because of a $5 screw. 1978 Honda Cx500 Maggot 1979 Honda Cx500 Custom 1980 Cx500 Deluxe Buy HTTA Items Quick Reference Info    Report

03-06-2009, 9:37 AM RichNCT Joined on 03-02-2006 Connecticut, USA Posts 3,463 Re: Valve Adjustment Woes Will, In what way won't they tighten down?  The lock nut spins on the tappet screw?  Or the tappet screw pulls up thru the threaded hole in the rocker arm?  Or the tappet screw broke off before torque spec was met?  I'm thinking the question is #3, and the answer is probably a PO overtightened it too much in the past and weakened it.  I've heard of them breaking before, I think they are sensitive to overtightening.  I would expect that the broken stub would turn out fairly easily once the locknot is gone. AFAIK all carbureted 650s use those Canadian head tappet adjusters, (eh?)  MotionPro makes a really nice tappet adjuster set with multiple nut size and slotted and Robertson screw head tools.  Nice, but pricey, about $40 US I think.  A pleasure to use though, when I borrow Kevin's set.    Refueling on The James Bay Road, 2009 Born to be relatively wild (for a grampa x 3) GL650I, CX650E, CX650T    Report

03-06-2009, 9:49 AM wildmanwill Joined on 05-25-2008 Chester County, Pennsylvania Posts 4,034 Re: Valve Adjustment Woes  RichNCT wrote: Will, In what way won't they tighten down?  The lock nut spins on the tappet screw?  Or the tappet screw pulls up thru the threaded hole in the rocker arm?  Or the tappet screw broke off before torque spec was met?  I'm thinking the question is #3, and the answer is probably a PO overtightened it too much in the past and weakened it.  I've heard of them breaking before, I think they are sensitive to overtightening.  I would expect that the broken stub would turn out fairly easily once the locknot is gone. AFAIK all carbureted 650s use those Canadian head tappet adjusters, (eh?)  MotionPro makes a really nice tappet adjuster set with multiple nut size and slotted and Robertson screw head tools.  Nice, but pricey, about $40 US I think.  A pleasure to use though, when I borrow Kevin's set.    The tappet screw broke off before torque spec was met on the locknut.  This one broke just below the locknut.  Once this happened, any others that didn't immediately meet the low torque spec I didn't turn anymore and will replace as well.   They are one thing that I didn't have spares of, but will soon!  I wonder if all the screws were replaced on my custom at some point in the past, because like I said they all had flat head screws on them.  I also found the clearances were ALL too tight on that bike - same bike that is making the mystery noise. 1983 CX650 Turbo 1982 CX500 Custom Donating Member    Report

03-06-2009, 10:06 AM RichNCT Joined on 03-02-2006 Connecticut, USA Posts 3,463 Re: Valve Adjustment Woes I'll pull a cover on a CX650C engine and check the tappet screw heads, I thought they were also square. Refueling on The James Bay Road, 2009 Born to be relatively wild (for a grampa x 3) GL650I, CX650E, CX650T    Report

03-06-2009, 1:41 PM DavidfromWisconsin Joined on 03-19-2008 Appleton, WI Posts 2,458 Re: Valve Adjustment Woes Wildman, What are you using to torque the nuts? Maybe it is not accurate? On the valve adjusting lock nut I would much rather have to re-adjust a nut from being too loose than to break them off. I do it by feel and I have never broken an adjuster and only once in 40 years did I have a nut come loose ... and the noise told me almost immediately that it had come loose. When you need to torque to only 11 lbs on the lock nut, that is a job for a 1/4 inch drive inch pound torque wrench or by hand, just nice and snug on the lug nut. No real force needs to be applied. Remember that a torque wrench is most accurate in the center 2/3rds of it range. Most 3/8th drive torque wrenches start about 6-8 lbs which means they aren't very accurate at 11 lbs. David From Wisconsin ... R80Dave '82 GL500I alias Candy '82 GL500I alias Candy II '00 BMW K1200LT & trailer '81 KZ440 (Wife's learning bike)    Report

03-06-2009, 3:31 PM wildmanwill Joined on 05-25-2008 Chester County, Pennsylvania Posts 4,034 Re: Valve Adjustment Woes Hi David - Thanks for the suggestions.  I am using a brand new craftsman torque wrench.  The minimum torque settings for a 650 engine are 14, so I was setting them to that.  You're right though, for such a low torque I should probably just hand tighten them. I did get the snapped off screw out tonight (Thanks Stitch).  I have ordered some replacement screws (noone locally had them).  Missing out some nice riding weather this weekend, but there will be plenty more warm days to come. 1983 CX650 Turbo 1982 CX500 Custom Donating Member    Report

03-06-2009, 4:36 PM DavidfromWisconsin Joined on 03-19-2008 Appleton, WI Posts 2,458 Re: Valve Adjustment Woes Wildman, The factory shop manual says 11-13lbs. David From Wisconsin ... R80Dave '82 GL500I alias Candy '82 GL500I alias Candy II '00 BMW K1200LT & trailer '81 KZ440 (Wife's learning bike)    Report

03-06-2009, 7:28 PM wildmanwill Joined on 05-25-2008 Chester County, Pennsylvania Posts 4,034 Re: Valve Adjustment Woes Hi Dave - Apparently there are discrepancies out there.  Rob Davis' site says   "Now check the clearance again. If it's still ok, use your torque wrench to tighten the locking nut to the correct setting of 11 - 13 ft lbs (500cc engines) or 14 - 18 ft lbs (650cc engines). Check the clearance again, and readjust if necessary. Don't forget to use the torque wrench to finally tighten the locknut."  My Haynes Manual says 500 models 11.0-13.0 lbf ft, 650 models 14.5-18.0 lbf ft. The factory manual for the 650T says 11.0-13.0.  So you are right Dave! Where do you think these other numbers came from?  Factory manual for the custom is on the way, I'll be curious to see what that says as well! I guess the torque values are somewhat irrelevant if I am going to tighten them by feel anyway. Thanks again for your input. 1983 CX650 Turbo 1982 CX500 Custom Donating Member    Report

03-06-2009, 7:52 PM Blindstitch2002 Joined on 05-16-2007 Greenfield Wisconsin Posts 5,000 Re: Valve Adjustment Woes Good call on the tightening by hand. Like everything else Rob cant always be right. Just like with the intake exhaust tappet adjustment. Everyone here seems to go with .08 and .10 or .003 and .004. 1978 Honda Cx500 Maggot 1979 Honda Cx500 Custom 1980 Cx500 Deluxe Buy HTTA Items Quick Reference Info    Report

07-12-2010, 11:13 PM melvivian Joined on 12-01-2008 Posts 1 Re: Valve Adjustment Woes I live in Millington Tennessee and am not able to locate a robertson screw to make a valve tool. Every place I checked I got funny looks and the repky, "Robertson screw?"    Report

07-12-2010, 11:31 PM Abes_CW Joined on 04-17-2007 saskatoon Posts 3,036 Re: Valve Adjustment Woes Say square head..... if you have no luck, let me know I'll put one in an envelope for you. I got hundreds left over from building my fence and deck. 1983 GL650i Had 4 CX/GL's at one point this year, down to one, next spring is another adventure! age 38 (29 plus tax)    Report

07-13-2010, 12:42 AM spanish bandit Joined on 02-12-2009 southern spain Posts 5,010 Re: Valve Adjustment Woes  melvivian wrote: I live in Millington Tennessee and am not able to locate a robertson screw to make a valve tool. Every place I checked I got funny looks and the repky, "Robertson screw?" welcome to the forum.take a few minutes to update your siniture and avitar,include your location,,and your bikes details........... this will help you http://globalcxglvtwins.hostingdelivered.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=535 when i feel the need,i do it,llego,ve 60,s ----------------------------- 2008.1982 honda gli silverwing [uk model ] 2010.1981 honda gli silverwing [uk model ]    Report

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